Episode 3 - Gabriela Cruz - Trending Catholicism, Hallow App, Trad Movement

[00:00:01] Speaker A: All right, we are back with the lovely Gabriela Cruz, this time in English. And I want to dive a little bit deeper into Catholicism. Gabby is from Mexico. She is Catholic, has been Catholic her whole life and has a lot of deep insights into the Catholic faith. And I've noticed a trend and so I want to pick her brain a little bit about Catholicism and what she has noticed over the last few years with people turning to religion, specifically, especially in the west, people finding Jesus, celebrities, influencers, politicians, etc. And in particular, people moving towards Catholicism. So, Gabby, welcome back. Thanks for coming back and talking to me in English. Had a great time talking to you in Spanish. In the last episode, you mentioned that you had done like a live praying. [00:00:53] Speaker B: So. [00:00:53] Speaker A: So let's start there. Tell me a little bit about when you were praying your live stream on Instagram, I guess it was. And praying the rosary. What did you notice through that experience in terms of people being very excited and people genuinely seeking to connect with their faith or connect through prayer, etc. [00:01:12] Speaker B: Oh, thank you, Josh. Thanks for inviting me. Now in English. So I just want to tell your auditorium that I'm not a native English speaker. Just in case something is not very clear, please feel free to ask the question again. [00:01:28] Speaker A: Your English is perfect, by the way. [00:01:32] Speaker B: You are kind, but it's not. Anyway, what I want to share with you is that randomly in 2020, it happened that I had access to my local parish Facebook account because of the pandemic. So every small church or big church or a school or whatever organization tried to be online and to have a presence. In the case of my church, we didn't. So we have to open a Facebook account. And eventually in the first month or couple months, it was going to be Easter time. So in my personal research for God, I start consecration, which led me to start praying for nine days. What Catholics know as novenas, like nine days, nine days of prayers. [00:02:35] Speaker A: Was that around Easter time or was. [00:02:37] Speaker B: What time it was? I don't remember if it was before Easter or after Easter, because what I remember is the pandemic started in March, like here in Mexico. We didn't go back from Holy Week vacation time, which is like summer break for you or something. But what I remember is that in between, I think in between Eastern and Pentecost, which is 50 days where we Catholics celebrate Easter and the resurrection of Jesus, I have this need to share with people these prayers in order to pray so this pandemic could end. We didn't know what was going to be ahead, how long this will take, which was like a couple years. So I started praying for nine days. And these nine days turned into another nine days. And the pandemic kept going and kept going until we decide. When I say we, it's my family, my mom, my dad and me. In that moment, I wasn't married and I live at home with my parents to start praying the rosary every day. And we have a lot of neighbors, beloved friends, family members, people that we knew from, I mean, our jobs, church in our daily life that were in need of a group of prayer because there were a lot of ill people. And it was a lot of misinformation about what was really going on. So what I noticed as it was praying live, my face was not the focus of the prayer, but the image of Our lady of Guadalupe, Mother Mary, and another advocacy that's known as Mary, the undoer of knots. And that people start sharing that we were praying for the beloved ones that have issues. [00:05:04] Speaker A: So you were. The camera was focused on a picture of Mary. [00:05:09] Speaker B: Yeah, well, for us it's a lady of. Yeah. It was only the candle, the couple images of Mother Mary, the rosary and some flowers. It was. This is called altar and a very homey altar. And it was only my voice and the voice of my parents who were replying what we were sharing with the people. And the most important thing is that the people was joining for, I mean, five, seven minutes. And in that moment, I started saying, welcome, please feel free to write down your needs or what you want us to pray for. And we used to read almost every day, like at the beginning, five prayers and then 10 prayers. And then I have 200 people connected at the same time. And it was not enough time for me to read every prayer, but I tried to do it. And it became a community of love, a community of spiritual support. And it was. It was not only here in Jalapa, in Barrac, where I live, it was in Mexico. And we had some people that was praying from South America and North America and even from New Zealand, because my sister lives overseas. So what I notice in this, in this time that eventually became two years of praying is that the people, it's in need of someone that is committed in lead of these prayers that it can join a community of praying. And also they have a support. They know that they don't need to be praying out loud or that maybe one day they will. They will have something else to do and they will miss it, but that we were very consistent. And in 2020, I discovered that it was a need for people, I guess that a couple years ago, some of. Of the world, technological people or marketing people realizes, and I know in 2022, more or less, maybe I'm not accurate. There's an app that started doing prayers, starting praying the rosary and helping people to be more engaged with their spirituality and help them to know how to pray and which prayers to pray. And it's called hello. I have never tried to be honest, but what I know is that these people that I was praying with, I still have them in my WhatsApp number. I have a group because every day I used to send them the link just if they wanted. It was not for everyone because it was Facebook Live. And then I sent the link through WhatsApp and. And in WhatsApp they could like also reach for. For us to pray for them or have like a closer community. [00:08:36] Speaker A: So I want to. I want to talk more about Halo in a minute, but so you. You saw. And this is in large part because of the pandemic. So it makes sense from a. What Everything that happened in current events that was happening in 2020 and then 21 with the lockdowns and just the sense of loneliness and wanting to connect, that communities would form and that there would be a sense of connection then with people, but also praying now. I think that that's. The last four years really have been a massive spiritual change. I don't want to say awakening. I think it's too cliche. But there have been definite changes in the way that everything on our planet operates, really. So has that continued for you or once the lockdowns were over, once things sort of went back to normal in 22 or 23, like you. You still have some of those People in your WhatsApp, but are you still praying? Like, are there sort of just. It was a thing that people did when they were locked in their houses and they couldn't get out? [00:09:48] Speaker B: Well, there's always a seed that is planted in our hearts and sometimes the time of planting that seed, it's a. It's a hard time. And I really think that was the pandemic. I see that. That face as a time of blessing and rejoice for my family because. Because it really push us to do more things in order to reach people that was not able even to go to churches. So for me and my family was an awakening time that still continue now. And I'm sure that for many families it kept going, and for other people it was only joining or asking someone to pray after me. So I do think that we are in awakening time. And since that moment, because most of of the families were exposed to a lot of pain and suffering because I don't know if there's a family that was or had the fortune not to miss a member or to experience the disease on, on their own. So this led people to look for resources that maybe they haven't looked before. And many of them really get attached to the faith, to the faith that they, they used to have or to look for something that was more spiritual material. And. [00:11:27] Speaker A: Yeah, and that's something that's. People have. Sorry, a little bit of a delay. That's something that I have as well, which is I used to be in the faith, I grew up Catholic or I grew up in the church, etc. And then I left and I became part of, you know what? Most of us, I think, have experienced a very secular culture over the last couple of decades. And now people are coming back to the faith. And part of the reason, the catalyst for it, I think was the pandemic and just all of the changes that, that sort of happened worldwide over those, those couple of years and then has continued the last two years as well with all of the politics and whatnot. My, my skepticism about what's happening. And you mentioned Halo is, you mentioned another. People that I've talked to in conversations that I haven't published yet have talked about the importance of silence, the importance of listening more than just going to God, you know, with my petitions for this is bad, please help it or this is good, thank you. But to actually go and just to sit in silence and to receive, to listen or to repent. We mentioned that when we talked in Spanish. My skepticism with Halo or hallowed Halo app. I guess it's play on words on both Halo and hello is who's behind it and the fact that there's so much money that has gone into it. And so what you experienced was organic. There was a need. You were meeting the need. You were praying live on social media and people were joining together, people were finding community. But when you have some of the world's largest venture capital funds that invest in tech who have billions of dollars of assets under management, they're avowed transhumanists like Peter Thiel. You have politicians like J.D. vance, who was friends with Peter Thiel, who was a transhumanist. Transhumanists do not believe in the soul. They believe in merging man and our mental consciousness with robots, with technology. I question why they would invest not just millions of dollars or tens of millions, but but over $100 million. I think it's over 200 now at this point into this prayer app that is meant to basically capitalize on that trend of people wanting to move back to their faith. So. But at the same time, like it's it. I don't want to be judgmental of something that is organic. Like you experience it in an organic way. I've seen it and also experienced it in an organic way over these last few years. It's like there is something spiritual and transformational happening. Right. How do we protect, I guess from, let's say, forces that maybe have a long term plan that isn't necessarily in the best interest of the spirit? And I'm not really familiar. Maybe you can explain more to me about the different types of prayers. Why would there be tens of thousands of different prayers on an app? I guess that would be the question to start with there. So you were doing certain prayers. The Catholic Church has a number of prayers. [00:14:50] Speaker B: Right. [00:14:50] Speaker A: But are there thousands of them or they're just like there's a few prayers from the Bible and from the church canon that say these are the prayers that you can pray, the rosaries, etc. How does that work? [00:15:02] Speaker B: Well, first of all, I want to say that I was curious about this app because I noticed the need of the people. And when the pandemic finished, we were in a different time in the humanity. The history of humanity just changed. Maybe we didn't realize, but we experienced a new approach to other people through technology. So I catch the sense of the need of an app or something that could help us and lead us in our daily life to be more in touch with our faith in connection with technology. Now with this said, I don't know why I didn't have the amazing idea of looking for a fund and making my own app. I just didn't. But I knew that it was a need. Even today, people is texting me like, hey, can you share with me one of the links? Because I really miss your voice. I really miss praying with you guys. Whatever. [00:16:07] Speaker A: Second, you can do a competitive one in Spanish because I think everything they're doing is in English. So do a hello app. [00:16:14] Speaker B: No, I'm not sure. I think it's also in Spanish because I've seen some advertising in Spanish. Second, I don't know the app. Like, I have never used it. I have never downloaded it. I haven't been curious about it because I feel confident about my own faith and how I can make space for my own prayer time. So I haven't feel in need of someone to help me that much. [00:16:43] Speaker A: Why do people, why do people feel that need? And, and why even more like, why is it that if it's a celebrity. Because that's who they're using. I mean, a huge chunk of their money has gone to. They ran a Super bowl ad and they're paying all kinds of celebrities. I mean, Mark Wahlberg, Marky Mark, he's one, he was one of the original investors, one of the original celebrities that got involved in this. And now there's so many celebrities. And they've even had people like Liam Neeson who, who was reading prayers and whatnot. And they, that was like, last year, I guess they had to apologize for it because it came out that, well, Liam Neeson is very pro abortion. Like, why are you having this guy reading prayers? And they were like, oh, sorry. Well, we differentiate between content creators that help us on the app and spiritual leaders. So it's okay if we have all these celebrities. So I have obviously a lot of skepticism for celebrities in general, but if people want to follow someone and they're being led to God, I mean, I can't judge that, that's great, right? But why do people feel like they need that rather than just like you said, like, you didn't download the app because what, you know how to pray and you just go directly to God and you pray? [00:18:04] Speaker B: Well, I think with this change of epoch, many things just this, this is stabilized. Like, didn't, sorry, don't work as they used to work. Many people is working part time in their own homes or they went back to driving for a couple hours to get to their jobs. So in this case, it's super useful. Useful that you're driving or you are doing, I don't know, laundry or maybe cooking. And you can be connected and listening through your headphones or doing something that is allowing you not to stop praying while you are doing other duties. That's. That's one thing that I can relate to. Sometimes when I drive, I play a podcast that prays a rosary and I'm praying because it's difficult to be counting the Holy Marys while you're driving, you know, Second, I really think that this, this difficult time that we experience have led people to look more into themselves. Not everyone, because as you know, there's not 100% of the seeds that are growing. But yes, they are more in touch with that. And maybe as Catholics, we don't make a big effort to show how to pray when you are not a young, young kid, but we know the basic prayers, as you were saying, like how many prayers are there out? I really don't know. We have thousands of different prayers. They are different. [00:19:52] Speaker A: There are thousands of different prayers then. [00:19:54] Speaker B: Yes, yes. The more common at Our Father that I'm sure that it's not only for Catholics, it's also for, also for Christians. The other one is a Holy Mary. And if you join these two, you will have the rosary, basically. And we have some morning prayers or evening prayers. We have different novenas, these nine day prayers that I was talking to you independent of the saint, or we have praise for St. Joseph. We have prayers to the Holy Spirit as an example, a very small example. And this time that I told you that I started my rosary, my mom started something that is called it's awakening, like waking up with the Holy Spirit or something like that. And they've been prayer for four years in a row, every day, all day long. And they send the prayers through WhatsApp and where they pray. It's a rosary to the Holy Spirit. So there's, it's a special prayer that they do in the very morning when the sun is rising. And through the day they keep glorifying the Holy Spirit and they write the small prayers or prayers on WhatsApp so everyone can read the prayer and share the moment what they are praying. For example, I'm praying now, I'm writing a small message, but you are gonna read it like in 10 minutes and you are going to also glorify the Holy Spirit with my prayer. So this is a continuous thing and it's another example, but it helps people to keep the prayer. So what happened in the Catholic Church is that most people was scared to go back to Mass and after the pandemic, yeah, with, with a struggle. Well, now it's, it's becoming more easy and like different to what we experience in pandemic. People used to go with their head masks and we used to have very specific protocols that the government asked us to set in the local parish so people could go to Mass. So people used to watch the Eucharistic like the Mass and at, at, at the television instead of going to the church. That's what I'm talking about. The, the change in the digital and the, the real thing. So, so I, I don't know this guy that invented the application. But what I can tell you is that we as humans, even Catholics or whatever religion were led by some influencers or media famous people. And I, I really don't know exactly where this, this awakening comes From. But we have had for a couple years a Chosen, which, let's say a TV show, not show, like a series. [00:23:29] Speaker A: Yeah, the chosen. Actually the main actor on that, he's. He's one of the biggest guys on the Halo app. He's currently friends with the guy who started it. I guess they're both from Chicago or something. I believe it's. I forget his name. But he's the guy who plays Jesus on, on that show, which obviously has been a huge commercial success even to the point of where now in Hollywood they're looking for more spiritual screen scripts not because they care, but because they care about what makes them money. [00:24:00] Speaker B: Yes. And also the Trap movement has, has gained a lot of weight in the USA and it's coming to America. So. [00:24:08] Speaker A: So what's. What's behind that? That's a, that's another great thing that sort of goes along hand in hand with this rise of the popularity in Catholicism. Because it's. The trad movement is very specific. Like it's not just about, hey, let's be spiritual, let's love each other, let's follow the commandments of Jesus. It's like, let's go back to the Roman times, let's be Spartans and let's build beautiful cathedrals like the Catholic Church. I mean, it's very, very specific in what's. What it's pushing. And that, that one I haven't researched as far as who's behind it with my tinfoil hat on. I mean, I like, I like the trad movement in many ways, but what is. What's behind it, I guess is the question. Because it's not. And I. Maybe it would be an interesting question to ask people of other religions and of other faiths also. Because we can look at it and say, well, from a Christian perspective it's this, or from a Catholic perspective it's this. But why do you think that the trad movement and why people are suddenly saying that these beautiful cathedrals are better architecture than modern architecture, etc. [00:25:15] Speaker B: I've seen this movement more in the USA or other countries and in Latin America or South America. I'm going to talk specifically about Mexico. I think that the ideological part has reached a point where it's like further logic. So the ideology of the government having. Pushing a lot and so far away different ideas like the gender ideology, like the euthanasics, abortion, even the human rights and the racism to a level where there is not even logic on what they are saying. There are still a lot of people that believe in the traditional family and values that are fighting for giving their children like the most stable life they could. They've realized that what we are experiencing now, it's in the surface. It's like only the part of the iceberg that you can see and it's not a part of the soul that we can touch. So in one side I, I think that we are also as humanity moving forward and backward. And once we are reaching like the furthest, craziest thing we are like trying to figure out to find ourselves. [00:26:56] Speaker A: And so the pendulum of WOKE swung so far to the extreme of castrating children in the name of, well, he, he thinks he's a she or etc. Giving hormones to children. The trans ideology, just everything that's happened with WOKE that has gone so far to the extreme. It's, it's not just that there are some people who are still trying to follow spiritual values, family values, logic and reason. It's the majority by far. And so the pendulum swung so far politically because of a very small minority who were extremely vocal, but it was not the majority. So I think the majority are the ones who are bringing the pendulum back now. But now the target is the all the way on the far other side, which is sort of the TRAD movement is kind of the complete opposite of the WOKE movement. Do you think that there's a risk that true spirituality could be hijacked in this process of going from one extreme to another by politics to where rather than this being a spiritual awakening, it's a political rejection of the WOKE ideology? [00:28:13] Speaker B: I, I really think that we as humans are also political beings. We have our body, our soul and our mind and it needs to be coherence. But yes, it's a risk. It's, it's like the, the part of the Bible where it, it talks about the seeds and where the seeds are. Plan, plant. Sorry. So it, it's a time for, for different religions and specifically for Catholic Church to be able to really replant, to really refocus on what are we believing in, what's our spirit doing. And yes, of course it's a risk because it's been taken as a, as a turn in the political path, not only in the religion because it's, it's been very political about what do we believe as this country, in our ideology, who do we want to become? Who are we going to protect? We are not going to be protecting, etc, but what, like the unborn, for. [00:29:29] Speaker A: Example, and children in general. [00:29:31] Speaker B: Yeah, it's super important. Like it's very Curious how you pick the days of our interviews, but today it's December 28th. [00:29:42] Speaker A: Coincidence. [00:29:43] Speaker B: Today? Yeah. We have, we have the Catholic celebration of the Saint innocence. So all the babies that were killed when Herodes, I don't know the name in English, wanted to kill Jesus. Yeah. So he sent a bunch of people to kill the newborn male children. Babies. And we as Catholic really appreciate this celebration because they were baby Martha Martized, like they were died. Yeah. In the name of Jesus. But now this celebration has become a celebration that talks out loud against abortion in all. In all the world. So we now are saying that, hey, now we've killed more babies than Herod. You know, like we are tens of millions. Yeah, of course. So for us it's something that really hurts our, our religion, our hearts versus life, what we're hurting. It's not only me, it's. It's the whole humanity, the spiritual level of the humanity, but also the physical one. Because we like as humanity seen horrors in wars, in day after day accidents, but also we are capable of taking a leg out of a little baby in the womb and to sell these parts and to stop alive with saline injections when the baby is big. You know, I'm pregnant now. I'm nine months almost pregnant, and my baby's about to be born. And this really, like, I can't even imagine how, how could I as a mother allow anyone to touch me or my baby? That's what we believe. But also. Yeah, it's. It's a time of awakening. Yes, but it's also political. But it's, you know, politics are built in order to not obey, but follow the ideas of the community, of the people or put new ideas on their heads. [00:32:07] Speaker A: Yeah. It's a way to organize as a civilization or a society. [00:32:11] Speaker B: And also to win elections. [00:32:14] Speaker A: Exactly. It's for power. That's the risk though, that I see is that all throughout human history, and obviously those who win the wars are the ones who write history. So you have to really go back and cross check with different references and stuff to see what actually happened. But throughout human history, religion and spirituality has been hijacked by political movements or by people who were interested in power. And even, even the church is guilty of this. Right. Like back in. I don't remember which century it was maybe like the. Must have been right before Martin Luther and his whole thesis, because they were selling indulgences like the church was selling forgiveness and selling eternal life. So I've always seen that as a cautionary event which I have to make sure that I'm not being overly judgmental, because if something is truly helping people, that's great. But when I look at an app like Halo and I see that they've invested hundreds of millions of dollars into this, those investors, because they're transhumanists, they don't care if people come to Jesus, they don't care if people find true spirituality. They want to get rid of it. So their only real motive, we can say pretty clearly those investors, at least not, not the guy who founded it. He seems very genuine in his reasons for founding it, but the people who are now controlling it, economically speaking, and in terms of the investment, in terms of how the money is being spent and how it grows, etc, they're not doing so because they love Jesus. They're not doing so because they are Catholic and they want to see a revival in the Catholic Church. It is a power move. If we look at Peter Thiel, and it's a political move as well, he has now become, because of his relationship with J.D. vance and Elon Musk, one of the most powerful people on the planet. And he is going to be behind the scenes of the politics now with, with President Trump. And this is what it was so shocking to me to realize just in the last few weeks when I've seen, I started studying, well, who's behind this, why is it getting so popular, etc. Now, like the most popular technology we can say in the world to lead people in prayer is being run by someone who really has no interest in Jesus, but a lot of interest in political power. So all that said, that's a lot of tinfoil hat, but it's, I think it's a genuine risk that we have to look at, be honest about, and then say, okay, so how does one, like, steel themselves against the risks there to make sure that when you're using the app, for example, that you are truly praying what you should be praying and not that there's not deception mixed in with that. Or how would you recommend, because you, you, you're not someone who uses the app, but you know how to pray. How would you recommend people maybe that like to use the app, find a way to get more towards an organic relationship and prayer themselves to where they're not so dependent on the technology which is tracking them and which could be doing, eventually putting in other things that are deception. How would you encourage people to be able to pray themselves? [00:35:47] Speaker B: It's a challenge, Josh, because I'm going to talk about something that is not the app, but it's very similar at this time in the pandemic, where the churches open their doors to everyone. And I experienced being there and having only five people in a big, wide church for 500 people because they were afraid, afraid of going out and they prefer to watch Mass in television. For those who doesn't know, we really value Mass because of the eucharistic. Like, we have the opportunity to go every day to Mass and to have communion, which for us is the body and the blood of Christ. So there's no other way where you can connect with the community, like to sing and to pray together the prayers of Mass and especially to receive the body of Christ. [00:36:50] Speaker A: What you were saying about people staying and watching Mass on their screen on television or online, I think that's a powerful distinction as well in terms of a spiritual battle, because when people join together physically, there's a different synergy, there's a different energy that happens when people join and pray and worship together. And when people can be separated and left just behind a screen, it's a very cold. Although it can have potential benefits, obviously. Like, we're having this conversation right now in different places using technology, but it's not the same as being together. And when you talk about spirituality and prayer, it's definitely not the same. Right? [00:37:38] Speaker B: Yeah. So that's, that's one of the challenges of these, this epoch that we are living. It's not only the application, it has been a change of mindset since we've been exposed to this detachment from. From our communities and our churches. I also experience this in my own job, which is not related to church at all, which is school. People stop liking going every day to the school and asking for new schedules, new ways of learning. So, yes, that's one of the risks. You asked me how would I encourage them? And for me, the answer is I have a very, very simple example. If you have a boyfriend or a girlfriend, are you going to visit them once a month, once a year, every six months? Are you going to confirm by looking at a picture or having voice messages interchanging small video calls? Of course not. You like to hold hands to keys, to share a movie, a coffee. And that for me, it's the same. If you have a big love, why would you not visit church, Visit your community, building a true relationship. So for me, that. That's the advice, like, where is. Where's the real love we share as Catholics? And also this is attached to what you were asking me about this app and the celebrities that are promoting them. And maybe they are not even Catholic, or that, that their statements are against what we believe. Negative abortion example you said. And honestly I just prayed. I had the sense that I was going to be talking about this with you because we have had some chit chat and small conversations about these topics and I opened my bottle before starting this podcast and I don't know in English, I'm sorry, my Bible, Spanish, maybe you will help me. But this is Luke 19 and it's talking about a man that asked Jesus what do I have to do to inherit eternal life? And he said, do you know the commandments? You know, like don't lie, respect your parents, be faithful to your wife or husband. And he answers, I've done all of that since I was a young man. And Jesus replied, okay, there is only one thing that is left. And it said, sell everything you have, share the money between poor people and you will have a treasure heaven. Then come and follow me. And with this answer, this man like became sad. He was deeply sad because he was very rich. And this is the answer for me. Maybe not for you or for the people that is listening, but we will find like the answer in the real actions of the people that is leading these movements. So we better question ourselves with everything that we are doing. Because evil can get in good funded real motive things. You know, the evil can turn it for bad even if the roots are good. Because he can work in with within us, like with our, with our wounds, with our temptations, with our sins. But also the opposite can happen. Something that was, was not planned to work as a spiritual awakening moment or developing of, of the spirit. It can turn into something different with the heart and the seed that we have. So if we're praying and we're actually in our hearts asking the Holy, the Holy Spirit, Mother Mary that comes help us. And we really believe that God is going to work. [00:42:42] Speaker A: And that's a great point too because you can. [00:42:46] Speaker B: Sorry, go ahead, just to finish. If you want to know what's the real motive, look at the actions, you will have the answer. [00:42:56] Speaker A: And that's exactly one of the things that you can look at. For example, Mark Wahlberg, who's an A list actor in Hollywood, right? You can look at what he's been doing and the risks that he's been taking with this app for several years and his promotion of his Catholic faith, etc, that's a big risk. So he's not necessarily selling everything that he has, but he has, he did recently make a movie about, about Padre and in church I haven't seen It. But I guess he is using his resources because he has his own production studio so he can act, direct, produce, pay for the whole thing. Like, he can do it all because he's reached that level of success where it's kind of like Mel Gibson who did Passion of the Christ. They tried to cancel Mel Gibson, but it doesn't matter because he's almost bigger than, you know, a Hollywood studio. So you could look at people like that and say, okay, so most likely his motives are genuine. But I look at other people who are, let's say, facing charges, criminal charges, or they're facing accusations of improper behavior or even illegal behavior, criminal behavior, and they have this sudden coming to Jesus moment. And now all of a sudden they're just like the biggest preacher of Jesus that there is. Look, if someone has a messed up past, we have all done things that we're probably not proud of. Right. That doesn't mean we've all committed crime crimes. But like, no one's perfect. However, it's skeptical when the timing. It's like if Trump gets into office and says he's going to go after Bill Clinton and everybody on the Epstein list, and the next thing you know, Bill Clinton is like, I love Jesus. I'm going back to the Catholic Church. Well, we're going to be skeptical about that. So I guess that's my concern about this movement being led by celebrities rather than it being something from the ground up necessarily, which you experience. So obviously there is a genuine desire for it. My, my questioning and what I see as a risk is that that genuine desire is easily captured by celebrities and people in power and by political movements. And I mean, when you're talking about spirituality and the deceiver, the great deception, that's going to be anything that is genuine and organic and that is going to bring true light and love and the love of God to the world is going to be probably running the risk of being captured and manipulated. [00:45:42] Speaker B: But we're also humans and we're also led by trends and we also like chocolates and popcorns. And it's not like I just don't. [00:45:51] Speaker A: Like celebrities, I guess. [00:45:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:45:54] Speaker A: So I'm very skeptical of this whole thing. [00:45:55] Speaker B: But, but, you know, like, I cannot tell you, it's, it's completely organic. It's completely from the bottom of our hearts. What I can tell you is that for some people, it's easier to follow a trend than saying, like, I'm Catholic, I'm going to church every day. Because I can promise you that most of these people are not very in touch with their own religion or faith. And maybe this has like given them a real motivation to, to be at least committed to their own prayer. And then I'm sure that God will, will connect with them and talk to them. [00:46:31] Speaker A: So it's a starting point. [00:46:34] Speaker B: Yeah. Also like this hasn't been a trend, you know, like I haven't, I haven't seen more young people at my local parish. Honestly, for me it was a struggle to find a man that was Catholic who I could marry. At the end, I married someone that is not Catholic. But I can share my, my real point of view and my life and my faith. But it's difficult, it's not easy. And it's not because they are praying with an app, the rosary. We know that they are, they are really deep educated in the faith. So this is more than an awakening of prayer. I think that God will find them through the prayers, through the movies. But it's always a risk as it has been for more than 2,000 years. You know, like the empires people have, have take the faith as a. As a flag most of the time, Crusades, other times for not the reasons. Like the faith is. It's. It's evolving. But what it's not evolving is who we believe. That we believe in Jesus Christ as our loving Savior, that we know that the body of Christ is the body of Christ. It's not just a piece of breath like the social doctrine of the church. I don't know if this is correct. Number name in English hasn't changed. And we as men and, and women are the same ones 2,000 years, 2,000 years ago. We have exactly the same needs. And if you realize like during the different times of life, this has been a. A trend or not a trend, but it has been a risk just to be led by a trend or by the ideology. And it depends a lot in how we really connect with our faith. As a true and app. This app can lead us to something more. To be more in touch with the sacraments, to confession, to go to communion, to, to marry. If, if you are living with someone, are you more into the desire of the sacrament of marriage or not? So that's the actions that we, that we will judge as humanity, as people that surround a person if they are living their faith or not. As you said, it's not only by selling everything and giving the money away. It's about how we show others that we are coherent and how we show our own family, ourselves and other people that the most important for us is Our faith. That's why the same part of the Bible Jesus replies to the disciples and the people that stare next to the situation of the rich man. And they say how difficult is to get into the. The reign of. Of the Lord for those who are rich? It's easier for a camel go through the eye of an eagle than for a rich person get inside the heaven. Because it's our heart. It's not a material thing where we put our hearts. [00:50:05] Speaker A: Exactly. So it's. If you're focused on the spiritual versus the material world because we are spirit consciousness and material seems like it's other people. [00:50:19] Speaker B: Like in my case, I'm not. I'm not famous at all. I'm not a Hollywood star, not an Mexican politician. I'm not famous at all. You know, but it happened that God gave me a beautiful voice for those people and that I have a special prayer. Prayer. Praying the rosary that people love so they could connect with my voice and they could feel motivated by my presence and my parents. And they start to reach. Do you know why do I have this WhatsApp full of people that used to pray with me? Because I used to reach out and say, hello, can I have your number? Because I need a special prayer because I have an issue. I wanna. I want to ask you how would you deal with this situation? [00:51:05] Speaker A: People sense your strength. [00:51:08] Speaker B: Yes. And that this encouraged me to become a therapist. So now I'm a therapist and I have a different approach to all of this, but with something so small like reading the rosary. Because I need to tell you that I was not an expert praying. I was reading a paper and I was. I was trying to figure out how to do it easier for people. The Lord appear and they. And people start being open to praying. Most of them stop praying. A small part of them keep praying. Until today. [00:51:45] Speaker A: Where do you think this is all going? So the, the trad movement, which in many ways the trad movement is not something that anybody is necessarily capitalizing on. It's something that I'm sure there are some, some forces behind it because of its sudden popularity the last year or two on social media. But you know, maybe even people like Andrew and Tristan Tate, they're. Andrew's a Muslim and Tristan's a Catholic, but they're pushing more of the trad movement towards the younger generations. But that plus this, this new trend that I've seen this year of, of celebrities and influencers becoming Catholic and you know, obviously the incredible success of this technology that's helping people to pray. Where do you See this going in five years. Is this going to be something that. That loses steam if the political movement, if the political winds shift a different direction? Or is this something where it's going to be a decade where the pendulum has to swing back towards family values, towards spirituality, towards reality, and. And that connection with spirit. [00:52:56] Speaker B: For me, I think that the risk is to live a more independent faith, like individual 1, 1 to 1, like God and me. And that's it, you know, because for me, that's the risk. And because love grows when it's shared. Because God made us for reproducing, for having family, for sharing values, for sharing food. Like we, we as humans, and in a spiritual way, are not like angels. Angels cannot eat. Angels cannot enjoy the deliciousness of something that you love. And you can smell a cup of coffee. Coffee, you know, like they are other. Other. Other beings. [00:53:48] Speaker A: That got you make me think of that scene in the Matrix where the guy's eating the steak and he's like, I know this is not real, but it's so delicious. [00:53:57] Speaker B: Yeah. And why do. Do we have that? Why are we able to enjoy a meal? Why food is so important for many cultures? Why do we need to get together? Why do women have to be pregnant and wait for the baby for nine months and then welcome into this world? Because of community, because of the need of awakening the spirit of a human being through love, through forgiveness, through sharing, to thine Twitter our own desires in order to live for the other ones. [00:54:40] Speaker A: I want to follow up with what you just said, because this is something that actually I watched the. The interview with Tucker, and the guy's name is Alex Jones, the. The founder of the Halo app. And one of the interesting things that he talked about, I completely can relate to, and he was talking about being in Silicon Valley, how old? Over the last decade. If you ask people if they were religious, everyone was like, no, I'm not religious. But if you ask them, are you spiritual, are you seeking, do you think there's something out there? Like nearly everyone in Silicon Valley, and this is my experience in most of the West, I would say, with people of our generation and younger generation, that there has been a dis. Definite move away from religion since, say, the late 90s, early 2000s, which was kind of the peak of the. The contemporary Christian music movement, Christian rock and all of that. That was more a Protestant thing. Then there was a move completely away from the church the last 20 years. But there's been a movement towards spirituality, and that's where I would consider myself. So and what you said is the risk. And I take that to heart because that you're talking directly to me. And just I know all of these other people, which is what he was saying, that they believe that they're spiritual, but they're not religious. And now they're starting to come back to the faith of a certain faith. I don't see it as risky. So explain a little bit more to me. Oh, I think I lost you. Well, until Gabby gets back, we'll see if she is able to rejoin here. I have to edit this out. So I think it's interesting what she was saying, because I have lived this journey from growing up with very conservative, fundamentalist Christian parents through the 80s and 90s, leaving the church in the 2000s and going on this journey the last couple of decades all around the world and many different cultures, many different faiths, many different belief systems. Even at my most extreme was what I would consider an agnostic theist. I hope there is a God. I hope that this God is benevolent, good. But I don't see it as far as humanity to coming back to having a more connected spirituality now after the last half decade or so, a lot more experiences with plant medicine. And I know that that's a whole different topic that I'm sure will be controversial. And there's a lot of war over that topic happening in the religious space, on Twitter and online where people talk about faith and spirituality. But for me, it was something that was. Has definitely been genuine. It has been an incredible experience of learning. And so I hope that Gabby's able to get back, because I don't see the independent connection of me and God outside of a religious structure as necessarily risking. Hey, you're back. Can you hear me? [00:58:03] Speaker B: Yeah, sorry, the Internet is feeling terrible. [00:58:07] Speaker A: No worries. So I. I just want. We can. We can finish up with this because I think it's a really important point. I'm not sure the last thing you. [00:58:14] Speaker B: Heard me say, but you were replying to me about individuality and the risk that I was. [00:58:20] Speaker A: Yes, yes, correct. So that has been something. I thought it was interesting that Alex was talking to Tucker Carlson about that very topic when that has been my journey as well over the last decade or so. And so I want to. I want to get a little bit more personal with this because, I mean, I don't. I don't feel attacked. That's not the right word. It's more. I. I feel like it. That's a challenge. So, okay, bring it on. Go deeper. Because I feel like we are Consciousness, we are connected to God already, and so the spirit of God lives in us, and we don't necessarily have to be using an intermediary, for example, needing someone to pray on our behalf or needing to have a spiritual leader who's between us and God. I think we can have a personal relationship with God directly. So go a little bit further in that. That risk. I think this will be a great. A great little topic to finish on. Why is it risky, do you think? Because of deception? Like, am I going to be more easily deceived because I'm not in a church? So, because I'm reading on my own, because I. I like to read lots of different things, different viewpoints because of. I mean, I'm doing this podcast. I want to learn from different people's points of view, different philosophies, different religions. Not because I want to convert to any of them, but because I think it's fascinating to learn because of my own individual beliefs, thoughts, feelings, connection with the divine. So why is it risky? And how can I avoid that risk without the obvious, which is, well, convert to Catholicism and then you're gonna not have that risk. And it's okay if you say that, because, I mean, that is your framework. But how could someone who's Muslim or someone like me that still is in that state of, well, yes, I am spiritual, but I'm not part of any religion. [01:00:25] Speaker B: Why, like, for me, it's a little bit like the tribe movement. [01:00:30] Speaker A: The trad movement. [01:00:32] Speaker B: Yeah. Why do you want to live like that in community? Why do you want the world to go to the other side of the balance, the pole? I know how to say that. [01:00:47] Speaker A: To shift. Oh, you mean the pendulum. The pendulums shift. [01:00:51] Speaker B: And being spiritual can be. You can talk about the spirit in many different ways, but when you are a religious person and you have a faith, you have values, you have a community to grow within. You have someone that prays after you. You have sacraments that hold your. Your faith, your spirit, your family. It's easier. It's easier to be attached to a religion, to your own values, to the Lord. So this is. [01:01:28] Speaker A: This is. Let me. Let me interject here. This is at the heart of my. My premise of bad, at my religion. This is. This is the thing. Because if you were living your faith the way that you're supposed to, and a Muslim is living the way that they're supposed to, and a Buddhist is like, if everybody is just living adherence with their values and they have that integrity, wouldn't that community then become global? Like Your church, your, your Catholic church, or do I call it Cathedral La Iglesia in Jalapa. Directly across the street there is a, I'm not sure what, an evangelical church. So you have a Catholic church and directly across the street you have an eligible evangelical church. That to me is crazy because you're serving, essentially, theologically you're serving the same God. You have almost all the same things. There's just a few things that divide and put you on both sides of the street. And it's like, yes, I can find community in the church, but if I do that, then I'm becoming part of that division. Right? That's the risk that I see of that is like then suddenly I can't be friends with Muslims because they think completely different than me versus well, yes, I believe that we are all connected, every religion, every faith. I believe we're all connected to God. And so if we just all live that in our way, if the Catholics live the way that they believe and the Muslims live the way they believe, and you know, the Hindus and the evangelicals, we could all love each other and we could have a global community. And I'm not suggesting a one world religion. I'm just saying in the same way that we all dress differently and we maybe like different foods or we have different cultures or different things, we're still all human. [01:03:26] Speaker B: Well, I'm saying that you cannot have friends that are from other religions or any of that. I'm saying that for me as Catholic, like it's easier to follow my faith and values that are the fundamental ones of what I believe. And that love was made to be shared and to be a tool for growth and that then that when we believe in Jesus as our Lord and Savior and we get into a beautiful cathedral to glorify him and to be present in the moment where the bread and the wine transforms in the body and the blood of Jesus. We all believe that we all have the same faith. So we walk together to our final destination. It's not our thumb, but heaven. So what I'm saying to you is that as a Catholic, I loved being surrounded by people that believe the same as I do, that pray after me when I have needs and they have needs. And for me, the religion that I believe in, that I practice, it's a religion that Jesus inherit us when he said, like, go to the whole world and share that I'm alive. And for me that's, that's, that's my goal. And yes, like in our hearts, even in families, even between people from the same faith, different faiths, different cultures. We have differences and I don't know exactly why it's so difficult sometimes to accept those differences and to stop judging them. And I think that when we are open to listen, it's easier to see these actions that I was talking about in Luke 19 like to see who really is following with their hearts the Lord. And also for me, the tradition that I was told of the TR movement, the tradition of the church based in centuries, thousands of years. It's something that gives a real fund, like a sustained foundation. Yes. To what I believe. Like it makes me feel sure about that. It doesn't mean that I can't have a, A, a friend that is not Catholic. I mean I've told you that I married with a non Catholic man. So these, we should tell the listeners. [01:06:24] Speaker A: That we're actually married. So I'm the non Catholic man that married this lovely Gabriella. And we've, we've had many, many conversations. Actually part of the inspiration for me wanting to do this was many of the conversations and discussions that we have had about the time topic of religion and faith and whatnot. And I, but I specifically to that what you just said, like, like be, be personal with me specifically because I, I think that there will be other people hopefully listening in the future as, as there start to be listeners who will probably find themselves in a similar situation. Like what would you say to me? Because you know that I'm not going to convert. I'm not, I'm not in the. [01:07:09] Speaker B: I don't know. I will wait until the last moment of my life. [01:07:13] Speaker A: Okay. But I'm not in the boat of like where I was maybe 10 years ago or more of being more agnostic and being completely at the opposite side of the way I grew up. So I've come back to spirituality for sure, but not in the sense of looking for the church that I grew up in or even looking for another church or religion or something. Because I really, in the same way when people ask me where are you from? I'm a citizen of planet Earth. Like that's how I think. That's how I see the world. That's how I, that's how I feel in my being is that I'm just like you. I'm just like, you know, a person in Central Africa or in India or in wherever. In that we're all human and we are all connected to God and we are all seeking. [01:08:07] Speaker B: But I guess that if you weren't like that I hadn't married you. You Know that, like, you have a very similar foundation than mine in the sense that I was grow. I was raised and grow. I grew as Catholic and my parents were close to the church and you were raised as Christian and your parents were really close to the church. So we understand each other. We both know the Bible. We know the fundamentals of the values that we want in our family, and most of them we share. But when you are asked, where are you from? Just like a citizen of the world in the same situation, I reply, I am Mexican and I love tortillas, you know, so it's about the perspective that we have. But I wanted to address that. The Catholic Church doesn't prohibit you to marry someone that is not believing in your faith as long as they don't stop you believing that. That this other person that is not the same faith that you don't stop you from raising your children in the Catholic faith, in my case, which for me it's a fundamental, because we know that everyone is creature of the Lord and that this love can happen between a man and a woman or two different people with different ideas that are sharing a genuine love that is founded in the real love that it's God. [01:10:00] Speaker A: But if we can do that, then why can't everyone do that? I guess that's what I'm getting at. Why can't we all just support each other on our spiritual journey? That is really at the heart of why I wanted to do this podcast. Podcast. Not because I want to point out how we're all bad at our religion. That's just a, you know, it's a catchy name and it is something that I think is true. We are, we. We do fail to live up to the. The expectations that we have even for our own selves within our faith. But like, that's the real heart of it is why can't we all help each other on the journey? Whether someone is a Hindu or someone is a Catholic or someone is just genuinely seeking God in their own way. Why does there have to be these divisions of like, oh, that person's new age. Oh, that person's like so trad Catholic. Oh, that person's a Hindu. They believe in 1000 gods. You know, it's. But they're seeking as long as they're genuine. [01:10:59] Speaker B: Two ways of looking at this issue. The first thing is that me as a Catholic, as a person that values my faith as the first thing, you know, the first one, and you know this for sure, is that I'm not going to be friends with someone that is against what I truly believe, what I fight for. For example, someone that is leading an organization to promote abortion. [01:11:24] Speaker A: Okay, fair enough. [01:11:25] Speaker B: So, so even if they are Catholic, because believing in it or not, they are Catholics that promote aversion. So I'm going to be friends with them. Even they are messing faith because they're against what I believe in my heart that I should take care of. [01:11:43] Speaker A: But they're also completely against their own faith. So that's like the epitome of being bad at their religion. Like you can't be Catholic and pro abortion. Those two things don't go together. [01:11:53] Speaker B: They are in many ways. There are many examples of this. So I can be friends with someone that is believing that there is a God, that there are values to be followed in society that, that, that want to build a different world, one that is based on love. Yes. And that they are following this path for the humanity. And I go back to the point where I was telling you. For me, the risk of these apps and these movements are that our souls became very individual. Like I am praying by my headphones, I'm praying with my cell phone. I am one with God, God with me. And I don't care about whatever. Because when I pray 24 hours, seven days, but I am not able, capable to help someone to give joy to the world, to value life since the very beginning or these prayers are not getting close, getting, getting us closer to be this man that God is asking us to be. Sell everything you know, obey your, your parents, don't lie. Go and help what we are invited. What I invite you to do what I invite all the people. It's to go outside and for me, with what you are saying, it's not that we cannot go out and talk to a Hindu. I know which, which are my values. I know why I believe in my faith. I know why I won't ever be willing to convert to a different religion. But I also know that I can be open to listen, to share, to share love and to be honest about who I am. I'm telling you I love my faith. I'm willing to share love. The love that for me comes from Jesus, from the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, from God, with you. I'm not gonna push you to be someone that you are not willing to be. But if I can be an example, like God is asking us in this small Bible here, and this example can help you to live a better life, to be better at your own religion, or to even think to transforming your life, I'm turning into a Different faith. Like what is happening now in Hollywood, apparently that that day I hate good, have achieved my mission in this earth. So do you think so that's it. [01:15:07] Speaker A: You have more in common with people of other faiths who have the same values than you do. Even with people who profess to be Catholic but don't have the same values. I think that's an interesting conundrum because as you mentioned, there are people who claim to be Catholic, but, but they are not pro life. They are okay with abortion or they even are pro abortion. Obviously. There's a massive contradiction there. [01:15:35] Speaker B: Yes, I mean, I marry you, but. [01:15:41] Speaker A: More specifically, like someone who is Muslim or someone who is Hindu who has the same family values as you. They have, they're the same pro life, the same traditional, you know, morals, values, etc. But they simply have a different way of worshiping. You have more in common, I think, with those people than you do with a fellow Mexican who says that they're Catholic and actually who goes to mass. But they're pro abortion because their values are completely different. Because for me, I, I think you could have morality without having to have a religious framework. You can base your reality on that which promotes and society sustains life. That's the simplest foundation for morality. That's, that's how I like. [01:16:28] Speaker B: For me, I look at this in two different ways. The first one is the values, how they behave in daily life. That for me is very important. [01:16:38] Speaker A: That's where I'm a hypocrite, because I have a lot of road rage, especially in Mexico. So I yell at people and swear at them. Yeah, I need to work on that. [01:16:45] Speaker B: And the other, other thing that it's very important for me, it's not only that. That's like the moral way of behaving in society. Follow the rules, the values we have, what we believe in, what we're fighting for. How involved can we be in politics according to these values that we have that have been put in our heart since we were born. And the second part for me is who we believe, who we worship, where these values come from, from like, what's above all of this? Because it can be only like being a good citizen or which logical moral values do we have? But for me, in order to, to become friends, to trust, to be willing to, to build community, to grow together, it's where all of this comes from. So yes, I may have something in common with someone that is Catholic and it's not fulfilling all the important points of our faith. And I can say, like, okay, we are Catholic, but we do not connect. I can say, like, okay, you are Muslim. We do connect because. Because we believe in the same values. But for me, like, the. The point of the pyramid, like, the most important thing is where these ideas come from. Who are you worshiping? Because, I mean, you can be new age, for example, you were saying. And I. I really don't like that. I know where it comes from, and it's not from a position that I like. So in order for me to make this work in my framework, in my religion, in my way of looking at life as, where are we worshiping? Why are we thinking this? Where are we going together? Can we be friends? Yes. Can we form community? Can we share love? Yes. There are many common points within religions, and there are few little things, sometimes even in Christianity, that make the break, you know, like, oh, I want to do this, and the Catholic religion doesn't allow me. Okay. I go to this other Christian church, and it will be okay. I have to accept Jesus and get another baptism, but it will be okay. [01:19:24] Speaker A: That's funny that you say that, Grimes. Today, which is one of Elon Musk's exes. I'm gonna see if I can find the tweet. She. She just tweeted that exact thing. So this is. This goes along with the trend. I mean, this was literally today. Like, right before we hopped on the call. I saw. I saw her tweet. What did she say? So this is one of Elon Musk's exes who has been, like, just way out there. She's an artist or a singer or something, and she, like, her tweet starts out, it is so monumentally embarrassing that I'm finally getting into Christianity because it's the only way I can quit vaping. Okay. So she's. She's finding God because she wants to quit vaping. And then she goes through this whole thing about her views and how she's always doubted that there's a God, and so she's been more of an atheist, etc. Etc. But then somebody comments and says, catholicism is where it's at. And she says, I'm too corrupt to be a Catholic, I fear. And someone follows that, says, christ came for the sinner, not for the pious. And she goes, damn, y'all. This kind of works. Like, maybe I go all the way Catholic. This would be a trip. I saw that, and I was like, oh, man. This is. Like, this trend is exploding. And it's interesting that the. The reasons why people come in and why they're Looking for solutions to help them be a better person. And also there is a lot of benefit, right in that unlike other religions people, people who are speaking like the person who responded to her says, like, look, if you're a sinner, that's okay because that's who Christ came for, right? So there's this sort of thing in the Catholic Church, I think that is like, yes, even if you were a horrible person. And that's why people like Russell Brand, who obviously has a crazy history of partying and drugs and orgies and all of those things, and now he's like the, one of the biggest proponents of the Hallow app and of Catholicism and of Jesus etc on his to his followers. Because Catholicism, Christianity in general preaches forgiveness. And so I think that could the appeal of it right now is that people are coming into it and saying, well, I'm this horrible person, but Jesus loves me anyway. That to me though speaks to the idea that people are looking for love and acceptance and they're looking for a way to find real purpose within themselves. [01:22:04] Speaker B: Well, I guess it's a real approach. You know, many times here in Mexico is very common that people said like, oh, you've seen this guy or this girl that they went to church and the other day I found them like they were drinking in, in a bar, like completely. I like drunk or whatever, or I look at them and they were throwing garbage out of the car or I don't know, many things. So the thing is that why is this person going to the church if they're not changing? Why is these people like preaching or saying that they are Catholics or whatever religion if they keep doing the same things one day after another day. And this happens because we are humans first of all and we can change, but it's not when you put a foot on the church. This change comes from a willingness changing and a realization of you knowing that you have been acting in a weird bad sinning full way the way that you want talk about it. And with the help of the Lord, and we're here to transform our souls with the help of the Lord, with his guidance, not for being perfect. So when you realize that you don't have to judge who goes into the church, who goes to mass, who behaves the better, it's not a contest, but it's a commitment. So it's like these. [01:23:57] Speaker A: Would you say that it's a commitment for, for every faith? Would you say that that's the same across? [01:24:02] Speaker B: Yes, of course it's a commitment. Like I've been I've been visiting Muslim countries and they are very, very committed, much more committed than the Catholics. Like they need to pray certain times in certain orientation and the women need to follow some paths and men need to follow different ones. They are committed to what they believe. [01:24:23] Speaker A: And yet you can see in many places where modernity and technology has made even those rituals, even going and having to pray several times a day, etc. Even that can be something that is just, it's just going through the motions, you know. So I think it's really, we'll end there. I know that you sitting for too long while you're nine months pregnant is probably not the most comfortable thing. So we'll end here. But I appreciate everything that you have said and I'm sure we'll revisit this in the coming year because it seems to be a trend that's really picking up steam. And I imagine that once Trump gets into office that there's going to be a whole lot of changes in America that sort of continue this push of religion and especially this reawakening of Catholicism. So it's an interesting topic and it's, you know, what you had to say also challenges me personally. So thank you for that. And yeah, any, anything else that you would, that you would say to people, let's just say just for Catholics in general, any sort of encouragement that you would give them if they're for example, using the Hallow app, but they want to find something more personal for themselves like just read the Bible and pray on your own or find community. Is that really what it is? [01:25:43] Speaker B: Faith without action is dead, you know. [01:25:47] Speaker A: So take it out of the app or out of the Iglesia and really live your faith with people. Be an example. [01:25:55] Speaker B: Yeah, for me, that's what people is looking for, what I'm looking for. I'm looking to share prayers at night with you as my husband because we made a community of love. I'm willing to share a prayer with, you know, my mother in law, you know your mother, she loves to pray. Every time we call, we pray, even if it's for finding a lost earring, whatever. And for me, that's been something that has changed my perspective of my prayers because sometimes she prays so hard that she knows what's going on, even when we haven't talked. And it's a different way of living your faith. But faith without actions is bad. So if we are praying through hell or whatever it's pronounced if we are praying with one of my recordings on faith Facebook, if you're praying only by reading your Bible. If you're praying by yourself, locked in your room, on. On your knees, if you are praying, but we don't go and share that love. It's like making a bunch of food. Like having a banquet. How do you call. Like, banquete. [01:27:16] Speaker A: Yeah, Banquet. [01:27:17] Speaker B: Banquet. Yeah. And. [01:27:19] Speaker A: Or in the church circles that I grew up in, having a potluck, maybe. [01:27:24] Speaker B: And you're sitting in. In the head of the table and you cannot finish all this food, you know, so who are you going to share this with? And for me, God can find you in an app in your cell phone. If he has found me through my cell phone with a consecration that I did advertising that, or I listen on a podcast. I don't remember, but it's the intention of my heart. I decided to do it and committed to it, and it really changed me. So if you're going to have faith, make. Make an action that. That can make this stronger and talk about who you are. What, without caring if they're going to judge you, if you're at your job, if your friend is not Catholic, Christian, whatever. If you like a guy and you're sitting in front of him and you're talking to him, knowing that maybe he won't pursue you because you're a Catholic. Do you. [01:28:31] Speaker A: Like exactly three years ago. [01:28:33] Speaker B: Yeah. This is important. For like three years ago, we had our first date. Date that. For him it's his first date, and for me it was not. Anyway, the thing is. [01:28:45] Speaker A: But we did have conversations like this. [01:28:46] Speaker B: Yes. [01:28:47] Speaker A: You were very open. We were both very honest about who we are. [01:28:51] Speaker B: Yeah, we didn't hide who we were. But. But he. And it. You said this like, Josh, like, sent a hook to my heart because he said, like, I will. I will pray for you. When we have already left, he sent a message and said, like, I will pray after you. So that really makes me turn my head to him as a man, as someone that can be my support in difficult times and in good times and every day that can pray for me that could not his my spiritual needs. So that was very important. And that was his action. He took action on that. [01:29:38] Speaker A: I definitely need to work on the action, though, of what you're saying, which is to. Because I believe God is love and I believe the importance of treating people with love and putting love and light and joy into the world. And I definitely don't do that as much as I should because a lot of people just suck and they make me angry. So, no, I. That's just honest. That's real, man. Like, I. I struggle to be loving with people, even though I want to be. And it's not because of any religious framework. It's just, I believe that that's how we should all be. Like, that's whatever the religion, whatever the beliefs, like, we should treat each other with respect, respect and love. And I fail to do that on a daily basis quite often. So that's a good encouragement. That faith without works is dead. So whatever that faith is, put it into action and live it in a positive way that's going to bring. [01:30:37] Speaker B: Yeah, and share it. Like, give it to community, make it grow. Like, like love. If it's not show sure doesn't grow. [01:30:49] Speaker A: And also having that accountability. [01:30:52] Speaker B: And you will have real friends that can be near you, close you when you need, like, into your heart. Like, you will have real friends. You will have real padrinos or godparent. You will have a real family with action, taking with them. Not only gifting, buying, paying the bill of the app every month. Because I need to be committed to pray every day. Take this and put it outside when you need. I can pray after you. I'm going to finish with this. The other day, the person that owns the apartment with I was renting months ago, he arrived to the apartment and he saw an image of Mary of Guadalupe, like this small virgin in my home. And then he went to my neighbor's home and she has the same. The same image of Mother Mary. We are best friends and we are neighbors or we're neighbors. And then he said, like, oh, you are very religious. And we were like, yes, we both love Mother Mary. And I said, like, I'm not religious. I think that I really believe in this. I don't feel like I'm a popular follow, like someone that follows a trend. And he said, like, do you know, he started trying to convince us not to be very faithful to Mother Mary. And my friend and I just say, like, well, that's what you believe. But if one day you need us to pray after you, or do you want us to help you in a spiritual way, feel free to ask. We will. So we just realized that our faith was coming from our heart and not from looking at the picture of Mother Mary. So that was the action. You know, we didn't try to fight or anything. He had his own ideas and it's. It's okay. But we were trying to do something beyond with our heart. So that's the action that comes with a real faith. [01:33:13] Speaker A: Good stuff. Gabriela, as usual, always enjoy these conversations. Looking forward to having more conversations. And probably next time that we talk about something related to religion, you'll have a new perspective on life as a. So that'll be fun to dive into some other topics as well. [01:33:31] Speaker B: Yes, of course. Like also, it's super, I guess maybe the curiosity of being married in different religious situations and how this can lead to more love. [01:33:50] Speaker A: That's what the world needs for sure. So put faith into action and live with more love. I appreciate you taking the time. We will talk again soon. [01:34:00] Speaker B: Bye.