Ep 9 - Mike Smith - The Gutter Gospel

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Today's guest is Mike Smith. [00:00:04] Speaker B: I guess I want acceptance. And then the, the voice that came to me, which in my head was God, was saying to me, I do accept you, Mike, and I love you unconditionally. Now go out and share it with the world. This calmness just washed over me. I pulled over to the side of the road. I have to go out and tell the world right now. So I got out of my car and started pounding on the hoods of automobiles and saying, the end of the world is here. God loves you and accepts you. So repent. [00:00:37] Speaker A: You're listening to the Bad at My. [00:00:38] Speaker B: Religion podcast, hosted by Josh. [00:00:41] Speaker A: God. [00:00:42] Speaker B: How's the newborn doing? [00:00:45] Speaker A: Well, it was one of those nights, so, yeah. [00:00:48] Speaker B: Not getting much rest, are you? [00:00:51] Speaker A: Not too much, but it was, it's all right. It's wonderful. It's a, it's a interesting new experience. And she's healthy, Mom's healthy. So that's, that's the important thing. [00:01:02] Speaker B: Yeah. Good. Now, do you do podcasting full time then, Josh, or. [00:01:06] Speaker A: No? No, not at all. I just started this in December because it's just something that I'm, I'm really passionate about and I, I bring kind of a lifetime of experience with. I grew up in a very fundamentalist Christian home. Um, and then I've just traveled the world and, and had relationships with people and many different religions have been part of many different philosophical systems and whatnot. And, and my own journey as well has been sort of a up and down everywhere thing. So something, something set me off. There's a little video, a little rant video on the website that kind of explains what happened. Um, and I was like, man, this, I, I, this seems to be a podcast because I really genuinely, it bothers me. I'm not even religious and it bothers me that people are so bad at their religion. And if people would just be good at their religion, the world would be a better place. And I'm doing everything I can, even though not from a spiritual perspective, maybe not so much from a religious framework to make the world a better place. And so it's frustrating when people are bad at their religion. So that was kind of. [00:02:04] Speaker B: Well, you know, I can kind of chime in a little bit about that. You know, I was raised Irish Catholic. I was an altar boy. I did that gig growing up and, you know, broke away from the Catholic Church, which really set my late mother off big time because I got into, like you said, a fundamentalist church right after I broke from the Catholic Church. If you go on my website. And you read the sample chapters, you can kind of. [00:02:36] Speaker A: I did read the. [00:02:37] Speaker B: This. Yeah. So what happened there was on the first sample chapter when I was seeing the imagery of my dad and having that manic episode. And my buddy stopped by later to that day and asked if I wanted to get high with them. And I said, man, I. I just think I need to get to church, you know, and because I was raised Irish Catholic, there was a Catholic church about two blocks from the house I was renting at the time. So the following Sunday, I went there for. For answers and didn't get any. You know, it was just the typical, you know, standing, kneeling. Standing, kneeling type stuff. And it was like, there's got to be more to, you know, God than all of this tradition and all of this nonsense that goes along with their faith. They have the confessionals, you know, where you're in there supposedly confessing your sins to people that are probably doing far worse than you are in life. So, you know, that's kind of my background. [00:03:38] Speaker A: The middleman thing is always. I mean, I don't like middlemen in business. So the middleman thing for spirituality, my connection with God is that I have some, Some qualms with that. But give me a little bit. I, I'm. I'm fascinated to hear your story and your journey and, and how, how the lessons that you have learned can apply for people in everyday life. Because, sure, not everyone, A lot of people will be able to listen and be like, wow, that's an incredible story. But not everyone has gone through the extreme depths that you have. Highs and lows, probably not. Not just the depths, but. Yeah, but I think everyone will be able to take away something in terms of. Yeah, at least people who are genuinely seeking God of. [00:04:26] Speaker B: Right. [00:04:27] Speaker A: In my own situation, you know, maybe I'm having trouble because of inflation, paying the bills and rent and, or whatever it is, relationship problems, health problem. So people, Everyone has their struggles. And for, for each of us, our struggles are, Are huge. Right. Even if they're not in. Compared to other people's struggles. But my, My goal is that for people who are genuinely seeking, there's always some nuggets of truth to come out of these conversations. And I've had. I just got back into this now, the last week because, you know, obviously having a newborn the last month has been on pause, but now I'm back into it and I just, I love these conversations because there's always something that comes out of two different perspectives and having an open conversation. We're not trying to debate, but we're just trying to learn something. So. Yeah, tell me a little bit about your journey from. [00:05:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I can start from the beginning and kind of lead you through the journey and hit on the high notes of, you know, from that faith based thing we were just discussing. So starting off, my dad was a manager for the JCPenney clothing store line. So we moved a lot. You know, he. We. I was born in Aberdeen, South Dakota, and when I was three years old, he got transferred up to Sauk Center, Minnesota. And at age 12, well, even in Sauk center, we moved around to like four different houses and four new neighborhoods where we had to make friends and that type of thing. But so at age 12, he got fired from his JCPenney gig and had five kids to, you know, support, plus his wife. So my mom had like a little ice cream store up on the interstate in a mobile home that her, our dad's good friend owned that land. So he was able to give them some nice breaks on rent to have that ice cream store up there. So we had a supplemental income, but nothing that was going to feed the family. And it was very seasonal. So they decided with their life savings that they were going to move up to a little town called Barnesville, Minnesota and start their own clothing store. So they bought a new house up there and everything was poor timing, let's just put it that way, because at this, we moved over the Christmas break of 76 and 77, and it was very tough on me because it was like, you know, okay, I don't have any friends here. And to make matters worse, I did, I did wind up meeting one guy once I got out of the last half of the. My sixth grade years when I was they. That was a Catholic school. So then we had to go into the public school the following year, and I only had one friend there. And we started smoking pot and drinking and, you know, living it up because we were oddballs, kind of. So was your family religious during that time? [00:07:30] Speaker A: Like, you guys would go, you would go. We would go Mass every weekend. [00:07:34] Speaker B: Yeah, we go to mass every Sunday. And at age 15, now I'm forwarding you three years. My dad dies of a massive heart attack, and my mom was making it clear to everybody, you know, we're losing the house, we're losing the business, we're losing everything. So, you know, we. She tried to run it for a couple more years, but it was really flailing away because right up the road, about a half hour outside of Fargo's where Barnesville is located. And it so happened that that year they just finished completion of the big. They call it West Acres Mall. So that's like competing against Amazon these days, you know. So that little clothing store just didn't work. So I was out of options. So I joined the Air Force. So that's how I wound up in the military. And so I did try college for a year, but flunked out of that. But anyway, so I, yeah, I had the student loans to pay then and wound up in the Air Force and my pattern of going to church ceased. I was always introduced in that when I look back on my life now, I can see all these people in my life like you were sharing that. God was trying to reach out to me, but not in the fundamentalist way he was doing it through all these different people that were either faith based in one way or the other. They were always inviting me to church. And I'll never forget. I'm gonna forward you through two and a half years went by real quick because I was just never going to church. And I was drinking and smoking pot there just like I was in high school. So there was a guy that went on base one time one night and decided it was a good idea in his head to sell a pound of marijuana to an undercover cop. And as soon as they busted him for that, he named names of everybody else he knew that was smoking pot. So my name hit the list along with 11 other guys. And so they kicked me out. That was during the Nancy Reagan's war on drugs. They had no tolerance for it. Right. So I wound up back. I moved into this little house where you read the sample chapter of that was my first encounter with seeing. Seeing demonic stuff, you know, not anything to do with God. It was just the total opposite of it. So you know, I went through that episode and then the second sample chapter. I don't know if you had a chance to read that, but that talks about actually what it would be like to be in hell forever condemned. And then that one was, I think I titled that, if I remember right, my tour in hell forever damned. I was in a straight jacket. I was bouncing off a padded cell up at the hospital for over three days. Is seeing demonic crap. Like I. I was already in hell and my stated my fate had been sealed. [00:10:33] Speaker A: So I was that was that what I. What I didn't get, at least from what you're saying, I didn't understand if that was a dream or if that really was what something that happened with the no traffic and then they. They put you into. [00:10:47] Speaker B: Yeah, that had really happened to me. Yeah. Because what I was doing was I. I was up late one night watching an infomercial on Tony Robbins. This is in the chapter when you get into the book. And I saw Searching then, you know, I was. I was like, you. I was like, where are the answers? And this guy seems to know everything and, you know, be a peak performer. So this is how. This is how I wound up in the padded cell. So this gives you some context. I was. I ordered his Personal Power series, and it had this thing on it saying, money back guaranteed in 30 days. So I. Smart Mike here, I just decided to jam it all in like 10 days and not sleep. Every time I was listening to one side of the. Of the tape, I'd flip it over and I was missing out on sleep. I was very much sleep deprived. So that led to that walk in the sample chapter of getting out my car and saying, the end of the world here is here, and you got to repent. And so I was seeing. You know, it was like when I was crossing the bridge right before it got demonic, it was like God was talking to me. Just clears the bell, you know. It was like he was saying to me, what do you want out of life, Mike? And. And this was from this Tony Robbins teachings. It was like, more money. No, that's not it. And I was. So. I was. In my head, I was going through all these things. When you really boil it all down, what do you want out of life? Yeah. [00:12:15] Speaker A: So do you think I want to. I want to jump in with questions on some of this stuff, like, because I've. I've been a fan of Tony Robbins in. In some ways it's very helpful sometimes when you need extra motivation. Since not. Not quite that long, but since college at least. So, like the end of the 90s, 2000, like, around. There was probably the first time I listened to the. The Tony Robbins stuff, read his books, whatever. And yeah, I can imagine if you did the whole. The whole month thing in 10 days, and there was probably just so much inspiration and passion and all of these things, all of these ideas. Where does that. Where did that connect, though, with God? And the question that you're asking, which is, I think the most important question, which is, what do you want out of life? What is your purpose? Why am I here? What is my price? So how did those two things mesh to where it was not just Tony Robbins saying, what is Mike's purpose? But it was God and Tony both saying, what is Mike's purpose. [00:13:16] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly right. And what I came to, Josh, the answer was, and I wrote about this, it said, I guess I want acceptance. And then the, the voice that came to me, which in my head was God, was saying to me, I do accept you, Mike, and I love you unconditionally. Now go out and share it with the world. And so that this calmness just washed over me. I pulled over to the side of the road on Main. You can about imagine this Main Avenue. So it's the main street in town. [00:13:49] Speaker A: I can visualize it. [00:13:50] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. With just crossing the bridge of Main Avenue in the interstate. And that is what came to me out of the sky and just peace washed over me, like I said. So I just decided I have to go out and tell the world right now. So I got out of my car and started pounding on the hoods of automobiles and saying, the end of the world is here. God loves you and accepts you, so repent. So that's what led to a cop pulling me a polo. And he asked me, he said, do you know anybody in town here? Do you have relatives or anything? And it just so happened. My little sister's husband was the chief of police in Fargo. [00:14:34] Speaker A: Oh, wow. [00:14:34] Speaker B: Well, I said, yeah, I know your boss, Keith Turner says the guy's name. So he goes, you know Keith? How do you know Keith? And I said, he's married to my little sister Paula. And then there's another part of it that I also gave my name. I named my wife as well and where she worked at, at this non profit. So he's, he's calling these people and, and getting a hold of my family. And before I know it, I'm up at the hospital and they're evaluating me psych eval to see, you know, what was going on head. And I tried explaining it and in the hospital it just started turning very demonic. So they put me up on the psych unit and you know, I was saying, man, I'm hearing demonic voices up here. There's something up here that's not right at this hospital. I got to get out of here. And I was just restless. And they said, no, you have to stay under obs. Our observation for the night. And I was fighting them tooth and nail and said, if you don't let me out of here, I'm going to sue everybody effing one of you, so you better let me out. So they released me under do against doctor's orders. And I was home pacing the floor that entire night, still hearing all those demonic Voices. And by where do you think that? [00:15:50] Speaker A: Where do you think. Sorry, where do you think that came from? Was it, was it because you were so open in a way spiritually because of the breakthrough and the positive side, and then to go into that environment where perhaps there is some sort of a dark spiritual presence that is connected to. I mean, you imagine a psych ward that there probably is a lot of dark spiritual energy, maybe even demonic activity that is around that. Do you think that. Yeah, that has something to do with it or was the other. Because the other voice sounds like truth. Right. I accept you. I love you unconditionally. Like, go and tell people that, you know, find your purpose. Yeah, that sounds very positive. That doesn't sound like deception or anything demonic. [00:16:32] Speaker B: Yeah. And you know, it's so ironic is when I'm doing these podcasts, knows that that message is coming through. All these years later, I had to go through being homeless in two different homeless shelters and going through civil commitments in two states and going through having to be institutionalized for six weeks later. And you just go on down the list and it's like I had to. Basically they would put me in chains out in the state facility and they would make me ride a paddy wagon in the back, all chained up, and go and stand before a judge once a week to beg for my freedoms. And my medications still weren't balanced. And so the judge would always deny it and backing up a step before they sent me out to be institutionalized. I was in jail in the county lockup for about 10 days, cycling severely with my mania. And there was my doctor who I have up at the VA now, saw me in there and I was. So I was just in one of those manic states again because I do suffer from bipolar. And it's like, you know, he saw me naked, head to toe, covered in my own feces. And, you know, you can about imagine. He said it was his, his statement that got me sent to the institution till I could just get my meds balanced. And anybody that's gone through those episodes, I'll never forget this. I share this with people too, is that, you know, when I first arrived out at the state hospital, I didn't know where I was at. And they had about six or seven guys like watching me and putting me into this room and tying me down in a four point restraint. And I'll never forget turning to the guy that was tying down my left hand and saying, so, Satan, we finally meet face to face. So, you know, there you go. But yeah, like I said, did you feel like. [00:18:41] Speaker A: Like during those times, were you angry with God? Did you feel like it was just a spiritual battle where you were dealing with the demonic and that was the battle. Like, what were you. What was going through your. Your mind? [00:18:56] Speaker B: Well, I. Yeah, I think to, you know, sum it all up, the best way I can is to say that it's, you know, if anybody that spends any time reading the Bible says in Ephesians, you know, we got a guard against the spiritual. The spiritual battle that rages on, you know, it's spiritual warfare. And if you're not, you know, doing what you're supposed to be, as far as. I shouldn't say good Christian, because I'm far from it. But, you know, I. I read out of the Life Recovery Bible and try and do my best. There's a men's group that we do every Thursday night over in this little church. There's about five or six of us guys. And so we're reading through the Life Recovery Bible and what it's like, God's view on what it's like to help and love on people that are struggling or have struggled with addictions of any kind, their background, or, you name it, loss or whatever. You know, we're getting together and discussing it for an hour. Then we do, like, prayer requests at the end of it. So that's, you know, that's about as much church as I get in these days. I. [00:20:09] Speaker A: But that, that's important. Talk about accountability, because I think for. And, and I saw this growing up and, and even in my own family, there were issues with this. How important is accountability? And what does that mean? Because in some religions, accountability means you go and you debate the ideas of the religion, or in other religions, it's like you just go and you love on each other and you accept each other. But in it seems like in Christianity, accountability means you stay open about your struggles and. [00:20:43] Speaker B: Right. [00:20:43] Speaker A: Your brother or your sister, depending on, you know, the relationships, those people help you to say, all right, listen, like, this week, you know, here's some scriptures that you can meditate on to avoid falling back into this sin of whatever it is that you're trying to avoid. So for you and, and being at this real extreme, having gone through this very extreme situation and time in your life and now having accountability, how does that work? And, and how important do you think that is for. For everybody? [00:21:14] Speaker B: Well, it's. It's extremely important. And if I were to be honest, I'm making a big gaffe in staying connected to those Guys, because I missed this past week because I was backlogged on all these podcast requests to go on, and I saw I was booking through Thursday nights. And you know, that's a bad pattern for me to get into because just like you touched on, everybody needs that accountability piece. And so, you know, I'm looking up at all my windows that open, and it's like, when can you come on the show? And, you know, now I'm getting to the point where I'm starting to get into the danger zone as, as far as not sleeping much or as much as I need to. And yeah, I got a good guy up in Grand Forks, I live in Fargo, that works with veterans, and he's helping me a lot to stay count accountable. And he's saying you got to slow down. You gotta only do one or two of those a day, tops. Spread them out and get your balance back in life. [00:22:18] Speaker A: Exactly. But also from. From my experience, I used to, I used to do extreme, extreme sports and in whitewater, the sports called riverboarding. So it's kind of like whitewater kayaking, cross between whitewater kayaking, boogie boarding. You're swimming down the river basically with a big, like half a kayak through the rapids. And we worked with an organization in Montana. My friend Matt Kunz set it up after unfortunately, his. His brother in it was committed suicide. And so they set up this organization called Exports for Vets, which works with veterans to help them, especially veterans with ptsd, to help them sort of get back into life as a normal normalcy, but to do something very extreme where they get that adrenaline rush. They feel like they're. They're on a mission with their buddies. And like, everybody is individual, but they're also looking out for each other on the river. And, and it's, it's really helped a lot of people completely change their lives, but they also, through that, have accountability and they go and you know, they have fun, they do something extreme, but they keep each other sort of on the level. And that is definitely something I have seen like what you're saying. And I mean, we don't know each other, but I, I really would encourage you, like, do as much as you as makes you happy with the podcast. But yeah, make sure you take care of yourself, take care of your sleep and, and whatnot. So stay on that, on that level plane because you have a message to share. And so in terms of purpose, you want to make sure that you're able to give that purpose because there can be distractions that come from, from the Enemy of your soul and your purpose that wants you to get off track. Right, Also. [00:24:02] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. That's good advice. And, and you know, I've been told that on. From other people that really care about me. And it's, it's nice to hear, you know, that there is that concern out there, even if it's from total strangers or from people I really care about closely. I don't know if you saw this, but there's this 22 veterans per day logo on my custom shirts that I get out of Virginia from Custom Inc. And it says 22 veterans per day and that's the number of how many per day take their own lives. And so I wouldn't. [00:24:36] Speaker A: It's unavoidable and it's super. [00:24:39] Speaker B: Yeah. And then the rest of it says, former homeless veteran shares his true life [email protected] and so I got those printed up, like I said, out of custom ink out there. And then I have these custom wristbands I hand out to people and it brings awareness. You know, I'll share this with you. Just, just. This might have been about two or three weeks ago. I was sitting by myself having breakfast over across the river in Moorhead. There's this favorite little spot I have over there that I pick up my mother in law. Her, she's not, she just turned 93 March 1st. Wow. And she's an amazing lady. She's a prayer warrior, a really strong faith, a solid believer, and, you know, was always there for me. So I get her, her pieces of pie that she likes from Village Inn is the name of the place. And it's lemon meringue or pecan pie is what she likes. But I'm sitting there by myself with my custom gear on and this guy sitting at the table right next to me, in front of me, turned around, he goes, I couldn't help but notice your shirt. Is that true about my, you know, my logo? And I said, yeah, it is. And then he said, well, let me introduce myself to you because he asked my name and I told him so he goes, mike, my name is Bob. And his last name, I keep forgetting this was Bob. Remark is his last name. Come to find out, he's the president on the board of a big homeless shelter here in Fargo called New Life. And he wants me, and he wants me to come speak at it. And he goes, I just think it would be a refreshing. Yeah, it would be real. So, you know, I, I meet people like that when I'm out in the public, especially up at the va, you know, that are struggling with the same thing. And I get a lot of compliments on the shirts and then that just opens up the conversation like we're having about, you know, the struggles they're facing. And my brother, God bless him, he's pretty critical of the Bible. But you know, he, he said, Mike, if you're going to be out there wearing that logo, make sure you get it changed to 17.6 because that's the accurate number on, if you Google it. And I said, well, okay Pat, so I'll make sure I mention that, but you know, I'm not going to get a bunch more shirts printed up that say 17.6 because it'll probably always change. I have a good friend of mine that is. I said, well I, I should back up and say that that number is still far too high if you can imagine. 17. [00:27:14] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. [00:27:16] Speaker B: Per day. You know, it's like they're running out of bodies because of what you were sharing. You know, that's, that's awesome. So I wanted to share that with you. You know that you guys are out there doing God's work right there, you know, get. Helping the vets because they do face. I was in treatment with those guys down in St. Cloud for three different times and just trying to find answers, you know, and he was, that, that was just something, you know, with the veterans that being around them all, there's like 150 at a time in going through that of all spans of war. You know, even got a couple of the old World War II guys in there that will go push to meetings in their wheelchairs and stuff. And so yeah, it's, it's been a wild ride, but I can definitely spend hours talking about my life. [00:28:06] Speaker A: But, and how did, how did you come up with the, with the name the Gutter Gospel? What is, what does that mean to you and what do you, what do you want them, what is the core message that you're sharing with people? [00:28:16] Speaker B: Yeah, the core message basically is we have all been in the gutter at one point in our life or the other. Some may not be as extreme as mine, but you know, one degree or another, we all face challenges of some kind. So my messaging is, you know, God loves you even though you have been through those challenges in life. And the way I look at it, I heard to this on the radio the other day, is that, well, there's two things I can share with you. I'm a two time suicide survivor as well, so that message resonates. I, I Got to get that in there. The first time I tried to commit suicide, I was 15 right after my D died, so I was very depressed. And, yeah, thank God that, you know, I was able to make it through all of those trials and stuff. And on the radio the other day, it said that you have made it through a hundred percent of the trials God's thrown at you so far, so keep on pushing, you know, and that's. That's me and that's my story. And it's basically honesty about the gutter and the struggles and how many problems and challenges I overcame in my life. And now I'm here to preach the gospel, the true gospel, which is, you know, like, I shared with you a few times now. It's the how much God loves you, you know, how much he did for you on the cross at Calvary, that if he endured all that, you know, to open up his arms and say, I love you and accept you, like I experienced that that time on the main avenue, then that's a message, I think that resonates with a lot of people. [00:30:02] Speaker A: And how. How do you. Because I've gone through periods of real darkness in my life and, and even to the point of. Of my 20s was kind of an agnostic theist where I'm like, man, I don't even know at this point if, like, God actually exists. I hope so, but I'm not seeing it in on earth, right? How, like, what advice or guidance would you give to people who are genuinely struggling with whatever it is that they're struggling with in their life? Are there certain rituals that. Or things that you would say, like, do this on a regular basis and it's going to help you? Because sometimes I think the. And correct me here if I'm wrong, because this is just. I'm throwing this out there as my opinion. But sometimes I think the God loves me where I am thing can be something that people bristle at and say, well, wait a second, like, if God loves me, then why am I going through this horrible stuff? Like, right, I know I'm not a person, but, like, I don't deserve this, right? Like, none of us think that we deserve to go through these horrible times. So where. How do you get strength from that? [00:31:07] Speaker B: I'll share this with you. To answer you directly, Josh, is when I was in the lowest point of my life, which was the state hospital, there was this plaque I saw up on the wall. And this answers your question. And it said, you've been given this life because you're strong enough to live it. And at that point, I was like you. I was reaching out. I'd been through all those struggles and I was like having a pity party. Basically. It's like, God, why me? Why did I have to go through all that stuff? And now the message I have is, because, Mike, it gives you an empathetic heart to be able to resonate with a lot of people that have gone through just as much as you in life, or maybe even more so. You know, that's the thing. When I do these podcasts, on quite a few of them, I get very emotional. Looking back on certain things that happen to me in my life. As an example, I'll share one with you. That right before I wound up getting shipped out to my first homeless shelter, this doctor stopped by up on the psych unit that I was on and he said, mike, let me be the first one, if no one's ever told you this in your life, to say how truly sorry I am that you had to go through all that. It gets me every time because it's like, you know, it's just so many struggles. And that resonates with people, you know, they can tell it's sincere. [00:32:43] Speaker A: Empathy is powerful. [00:32:44] Speaker B: Empathy is powerful. And like I said, the Road to Redemption is the subtitle of my book. That's just as powerful because it means, you know, having gone through all those trials, there is the Road to redemption where God brings you back. Just like the story of the prodigal son in the Bible and so many others of God redeeming people that hit the low points in their lives and using them mightily for the kingdom. [00:33:13] Speaker A: Exactly. So you, you find your purpose. The only way that you would find your purpose is to be able to have that story. You. Yeah, you mentioned your wife a couple times in on what I was reading, and you just mentioned your mother in law. Are you guys still together? She stayed with you through all of these things? [00:33:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:30] Speaker A: How, how does, how is that possible? [00:33:33] Speaker B: That's a miracle, because I'll share this with you. You know, when I was going through all those times, she stuck through, she stuck with me. And I'll put this out there, that every treatment center I was ever in or throughout all my problems in life, there were people in those groups that would say, you're still married. How's that work? You know, and asking me the question, asking me the question, you know, because everybody else in there has been divorced two or three or four, 10 times. And it's like, you know, I, I married well, I met her I only knew her six weeks before I proposed because I dealt with all these nut jobs in the military and it was like there was something special about her. And it was like, yeah, we're still together. Got. [00:34:23] Speaker A: Is she a believer? Is, is she. [00:34:25] Speaker B: Oh yeah, Christian. [00:34:26] Speaker A: And is that what really grounds her? You mentioned your mother in law as a prayer warrior. That's, that's how I would describe my mom as well. So she's just praying for me in this whole journey. Even though like, yeah, you're supposed to. I'll get her on, I'll get her on the podcast at some point. We'll have a conversation. I think that does. That'll be really fascinating. She's a character, but that, that's, it's incredible testimony honestly, that your wife was able to stay with you through all of those, those, those challenging times and whatnot. And I. What, what grounds her faith so strong that she's like, nope, I'm staying with this man because I, I made a commitment to him. Or, or I mean, what is it that has kept her, kept you guys together? [00:35:12] Speaker B: Well, their family, if you ever knew their extended family, they were all really strong believers. And it's funny because when I got married, true story. On her side of the church was packed and they had overflow seating on my side of the church because I only had like a handful of people on my side. My mom, my sister and a couple other people. So yeah, it was like, that was, that day was in a nutshell what our relationship has been throughout our entire marriage. I'm not close to anybody on my side of the family. I did just reconnect with some first cousins. A couple weekends ago. I went down to a hockey tournament with my niece Shawna, who is going to be a, A senior next year in high school. They came in second in state and it was fun, you know, just to go down there, reconnect with my cousin. He drove up from Sioux City. The tournament was in Sioux Falls. So yeah, we got re. Reconnected. And then he put me in touch with his sister and brother who are both living in Florida now. And his older brother Kevin is battling CANC Parade now. So you asked me about my future plans. I don't know if you got this out of my messaging or not, but I'm heading to Orlando October 1st through the 4th. Did you catch any of this? Yeah, for the Storytellers Conference. No, basic. Basically what you can do. I'll send you a link that it's, it's called the ICVM Storytellers Conference, and that's the International Christian Video Media. And what that conference entails is they give you a thing called Popcorn Night, one of the evenings that you're at the conference, and you pitch your story, what you've endured through life to get it possibly turned into a movie. [00:37:15] Speaker A: So. Wow. Very cool. Well, I. I think you have a good potential for. For doing that thing. Good luck. [00:37:23] Speaker B: That's what I'm shooting for. [00:37:25] Speaker A: Your story will definitely be riveting. Did you ever question, like, or do you question now? That's something that I think even people that don't go through these extreme struggles question sometimes question God or question, you. [00:37:40] Speaker B: Know, I think, yeah, I think that's just part of the human condition that nobody will ever find out until we're on the other side of eternity. I just had a really good friend of mine, and I mentioned him in all the podcasts that I do. Brad was his name. He just passed away with cancer back in December. And I remember taking him to all of his. As many as I could get him to his. His cancer treatments up and up at the Roger Maris facility here in Fargo. And he turned to me one day when he knew the end was coming close. [00:38:14] Speaker A: He. [00:38:14] Speaker B: Because you could tell just with each day how much that radiation was taken out of him. So he turned to me and he goes, mike, do you. You think I want to die soon? That was his direct question to me. And I said, well, you know what, Brad? Here's the way I would look at it. And this is going to hopefully give you some solace if that should happen to you soon. Look at what you're leaving behind everybody else to deal with in this world. You know, all of the. All the crap that everybody has to wander through, man, you're gonna be up there having the time of your life in eternity with a God that loves you unconditionally. So look at it that way, you know, don't look at it like you're missing out on something in life because you're only going to be this age before. He's only 52 when he passed away in December, but heck of a guy I met him. I'm involved in the jail chaplain ministry as well up here. I should mention that that's how I met Brad a few years ago. He came up to me. I was just standing in line waiting to get some popcorn at a movie that they were putting on for the guys, and he just came right up to me and started introducing himself to me and opened up his shirt, showed me his big wound where he has his cancer. And I'm like, who is this guy? Just come up to a stranger like this, right? So that was Brad. You know, he just, he loved people and he, he did all he could for people. You, he would have given you the shirt off his back. He was just an amazing guy. So I always, you know, mentioned Brad in my talks too, that you know, he's, he's so much better off in life. And I think if we could approach it, you know, that we're only here for a short time. I heard this sermon the other day from Dr. David Jeremiah, say that this is just a trial run for eternity. You know, it's how we treat people and that type of thing. And that was kind of his messaging about how, you know, we, we were only here for a short time. In the, in the whole grand scheme of things, you know, if you look at this through the scope of eternity, this is nothing. You know, what do you get? Maybe not even a year, you know, like the newborns. My mother in law that I was mentioning lost a child at three days of age after it was born, so. And she had a couple miscarriages as well. So she's going to soon be reunited with all those little ones up in heaven and that's what I share with her. So I try and encourage people as much as I can with these days, regardless of all the struggles and what. [00:40:52] Speaker A: Do you think the purposes of struggle if this is something that, you know, it's more of a theological question, I guess, but going through so much struggle and some people feel like they've gone through hell on earth. Like, like you have in many ways. What is. I, I guess what's the, what's the point of having to go through that? Is it because we need to refine our souls for that's a good thing? Like what, what is the purpose of having to go through all of these challenges and struggle and growth and whatnot. [00:41:25] Speaker B: I'll share this with you. I think it's because of what two things? I think it's because of what I shared earlier about the empathy that we can have towards others that are hurting. You know, when that doctor put the stack of papers on my medical files in front of me, you know, and I just get really emotional talking about different things. It's because I. Looking at it from that lens and then also thinking of it like the true, the true meaning of life, I think when I'm looking back on is just to have compassion towards other people and I'm losing my train of thought. Because there was something brilliant I was. [00:42:05] Speaker A: Gonna say in terms of the purpose and, and going, oh, here it is. Is it to care God more or. [00:42:13] Speaker B: Here's what it was. I was leading the Bible study a couple weeks ago and I was reading out of Titus because there's this verse in there talking about how if you were to isolate one organization and remove it from the body, the body would not function as normally as it would if those, if those body parts aren't there or aren't working with the other parts that they were designed to work with. And I related that, and it was straight out of the life recovery Bible, was to say that applies to the church. You know, if we isolate ourselves from the church, whatever you call the church, is that we don't function as well. And like I was sharing with you before too, Josh, is that isolation or getting off your balance in life can be a killer, as you all know, as you were talking about in your 20s through those dark times. So I think that answers the question, as best as I can, is to say that we're all here for a purpose and it's, it's to fit into the body of Christ. And with all of our flaws, with all of our talents, we've all been given unique talents. There's no two people that were born identical to each other. So if you look at it through that lens, then that clearly answers a big part of your question, is that you're unique. You know, God designed you unique with your characteristics. He has the number of hairs on your head counted, it says in the Bible. So he loves you that much, that he cares for you that much. And it's a struggle for people these days when they look around and they see, like Brad was talking about right before he passed away, you know, he sees all the, all the struggles and, you know, we all go through them, as I mentioned. So, yeah, I think it's just to glorify the body of Christ and whatever you can do, using your talents to do that is really kind of the trial run like Dr. David Jeremiah was talking about with your purpose to be here on the planet, blessing others. And, you know, look at it now with the lens of your newborn, how much you care for that little squirt, you know, and they're just a month old. So think of it that way. Every time you question God, you know, hey, look at this creation that he blows me with. And, you know, keep that in mind when you're having your dark, dark moments for sure. [00:44:50] Speaker A: And, and as far as. So that's It's a really interesting thing because we live in this world that is so materialistic and there are so many things that can be wonderful, but they can also be distractions. So the, one of the really interesting, like core components of why I wanted to, to talk to people from different faiths and different beliefs and whatnot is this idea because I have spent time with people across the spectrum of religions and, and I've done, I've. I'm guilty of this myself where it's like you kind of do things, you go through the motions from different motivations. In some religions you do it out of fear. In some religions you do it out of legalism, in. Because you're earning something through, you know, going through those rituals. But the reality is, no matter what someone's belief system, but especially I, I would because I know a little bit more about Christianity. It's like there shouldn't be so much distraction. Like we should be seeking in every moment, in every interaction. How can I learn? How can I connect with other people? How can I connect with God through this? It's, it's not just, I gotta, I gotta earn a buck or I gotta do this thing because I want to go here, I want to have this vacation, I want to have this car, whatever. It's like, well that's, that's fine. Like, I have no issue issues with any of those things. Those are material goals in this earth and sometimes they can be tools as well. But it's like, where does God fit in that? If you say, and this is from what the original rant, that's, that spawned this whole idea. Because I went to a post baptism party for baptism of a baby that's Catholic and it was three or four hours of reggaeton on the stereo and alcohol and sugar for the kids and all this stuff. And I'm just like, you just baptized your baby in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. And there is zero conversation about why, about what that means, about the importance of it. It's like we're just all here getting drunk and eating sugar and listening to, you know, terrible music. Quite honestly, it doesn't make sense to me. Like, tell them, teach me about your religion. Teach me why this baptism was important. And that's, I mean, I can be very judgmental about it and I, on a personal level, like, I'm guilty of, I'm not perfect, but I guess I want to inspire people to be good at your religion. So just put more importance on that. If you're going to actually go through the motions of doing something, why not try and connect with God? Even if it's not as entertaining or thought as fun or, like, come on, like, be real. That's my opinion. What do you think about that? [00:47:35] Speaker B: Why? I'll share this with you because you were just talking about baptism. I actually was just baptized as an adult. I was baptized way back when I was little as a Catholic kid. But this time it meant more to me. I got baptized through the jail chaplain ministry and because I just wanted to basically settle it and say, you know, God, through all the trials and stuff, I just. I want to get this settled, you know, once and for all and say, I just want to live for you. And I'm not perfect still. You know, I. I have my moments for it. But that's just. That's just the God's honest truth, you know, it's like you're saying it's. There's so many religions that do it out of what you were just talking about. And it's totally the wrong motivation, you know, because if you were really looking at baptism through the New Testament times, do you remember one occasion where Jesus baptized an infant? No, there isn't any. Right. [00:48:35] Speaker A: Because the person has to be able to make a conscious choice. Right, Exactly. [00:48:39] Speaker B: That's my point. So that's why I did it back about almost a year ago now. So it was a conscious choice after all the trials I'd been through was like, you know what, God? I'm. I'm just gonna settle this. So, yeah, they gave me a piece of paper and everything, but it's more about the heart and the conditions. [00:48:59] Speaker A: Right. [00:48:59] Speaker B: You know, so that. That answers it. I think the most clear way I. I can. I can come up with right now. But, yeah, so everybody's got that point in their life where it's like, you know, they look around them and they take for granted the fact that they are blessed in so many ways. I'll share this with you. When you were sharing about the baptism, I was thinking to myself, I should mention this. This. That when I was getting my book finally published a couple of months ago, it got published by Brooklyn Publishing out in New York. My autobiography. I just. It took me 30 years to write it and 60 years to live it. [00:49:39] Speaker A: Well, congratulations, because many people are. Very few people actually publish a book and have a story worth telling. So. [00:49:47] Speaker B: Yeah. And the publisher said, well, let me get this straight. You're not going to charge people anything for your book? And I said, no, I'm not. And that's. That answers the money thing for you, right? And he goes, that makes absolutely no sense, Mike. You've gone through all this in your life and they were the ghostwriters on it. So they obviously read it, all right? And they said, why are you just going to give it away? And I said, because I want to make it clear that I'm not in it for money. I'm in it for acceptance and to bring awareness to, to people that are out there struggling in life. And it's going to resonate a lot more than if I charge some measly amount of like 2 bucks or 5 bucks or something for a book, you know what I mean? It's gonna show that your sincerity is there and, and it's resonating with people. You know, I hand out my business email, which is [email protected] and I, I try and get to as many of them as I can, but I also try and keep my balance. So I do have another meeting scheduled later today with Doug is the guy up in Grand Forks that helps the veterans. And he's got an intern up there that's going to help with all my social media profiles. I haven't got those set up yet and I don't know how. So she's just going to whiz through and someone to pay her some money to do that. But these days I get all my. I'm 100% service connected through the VA, which means I get just a little under $4,000 a month tax free from the government. So that answers also why I didn't feel it was right to charge anything for the book because it's like, you know, my bills are taken care of. I don't need to be greedy and, and try and swing for the fence financially or anything. The only reason I need to go, yeah, the only thing, reason I'm even doing the Orlando thing too, is to. Is. Is for the very same reason, is just to get awareness out there. And you know, if it works, it does. If great. If it doesn't, you know, I, I took a shot, which is a lot more most people can say, but that's going to be fun out there because. Did you ever see the TV series the Chosen? [00:51:59] Speaker A: I did, actually, yeah. When I was visiting my mom. I don't remember when, a year or two ago. Like, I was there for a week and she made me like every evening she's like, I love this show. We have to sit down and watch it. And I'm like, okay, yeah, it was actually well done. So one of my issues is like, in the, in the early 2000s, was Christian entertainment was so bad. [00:52:19] Speaker B: I mean, right. [00:52:20] Speaker A: The writing was bad, the production was bad. It was just. It was cheesy and that. Yeah, it was unfortunate because sometimes, like, there would, you know, you'd have a good message, I guess, in the story, but just the way it was done was bad. The Chosen was done really well. So I was, I was impressed with that and I think it's made a difference. [00:52:38] Speaker B: Yeah. The reason I mentioned the Chosen specifically is because the, the producers and directors of that series is called Angel Studios. That's who puts it together. And I've tried multiple times to pitch Angel Studios, and the only time they will accept unsolicited scripts like mine are to be at the conference. They have representatives at the conference. So I'm gonna seek them out specifically. Yeah, for sure, if I can hobnob with them. But the guy that runs up, heads up the ICVM is what it stands, I've told you before. But the guy that heads that up is a guy by the name of Paul Marks out in Colorado. And great guy. You know, you can tell he's really got a heart after God. So he organizes it and then I have all of his direct contact. You got to be a member if you want the discounted rates. So they only charge you 100 bucks to be a member. So it's well worth money well spent for a year. So I do that to stay busy. The podcasting thing. I just launched the first of the year and it's been taken off. I just. Yeah, I got to keep my balance in life like I was talking about before. But, yeah, that's the. [00:53:55] Speaker A: And how do you. How do you know, how do you manage to have habits or, or rituals that keep you connected to God while also, you know, going out and being of service? [00:54:06] Speaker B: Well, it's a balance, you know, it's like anything you have to. And I'm probably the worst person on the planet to speak about balance because I tend to. With the bipolar, like I was sharing, I tend to get off the beaten path too, too often with my. What I should do. Yeah, it's like I just, like I said, I. I was booking out, out on Thursdays and that's a bad sign for me. I gotta get involved. Like Tomorrow there's another 12 o'clock meeting at jail chaplains downtown. We do a Bible study. And lately it's been out of, ironically enough, resilience and redemption. So, you know, it kind of fits to what I'M up to these days, so I. I love that one. Those guys over at jail chaplains are great. I know the director and the small group coordinator. So I just got an email from. Eric is a small group guy. He. He just got back from vacation, and they're going to be hosting this men's retreat at our church here coming up in a couple weeks. So got to go to that and get back into the Thursday night group. And the jail chaplain stuff, that's a big part of my life because it's all other men, you know, sharing their faith and sharing community, accountability. [00:55:24] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. What, what advice would you give to. To younger people, particularly, who maybe feel like whether they're in an Anglican or Catholic church, like, like you came out of. Right. Or if they're in a traditional Christian church. I just feel like I have to go to church. I have to go to youth group. I have to do these things. I don't really want to. I'm not like, they're not getting something out of it. What advice would you give to them? Of, look, it's not about going to church to go to church because of whatever reason your parents tell you, it's about this connection with people, with God, whatever. And these are the. The things that you should look at as a young person. What. What advice would you have to. To keep people from, I guess, getting off into, you know, a dangerous path that could lead to other. Other challenges? [00:56:18] Speaker B: Well, you know, that's a good question. I'm not sure that I have a good answer because, you know, I, like, I shared. I just turned 60 here in October, so I'm. Those days are well beyond me. But. And I also shared that I tried to take my own life when I was 15, so. [00:56:36] Speaker A: But did anyone help you through that time? Was there anything that sticks out as far as. No. [00:56:42] Speaker B: No. I was all alone, and it was very clear to me. That's why I attempted it. But it's so different these days, Josh, because not only do you have all of the pressures, like, on social media that you and I didn't have to deal with growing up. I don't know how old you are, but it's social media. [00:57:03] Speaker A: When I was a kid. [00:57:04] Speaker B: Yeah. So it's like, you know, that can. Can lead you into so many dark paths. You know, there's a person near and dear to my heart that got caught up in sex trafficking because of all the BS on the web, and you name it. So that I'm. I'm not really giving you a good answer because it's like, I just don't. They really need to get. I don't know that if this is right to judge, but I'm not trying to judge, but they need to get into a. A group of some kind, a small group where they have people they can trust, because that's what I do, you know, so if I were to give advice, I'd say, ask your parents if you have parents. Some are being raised by grandparents, so it's such a different landscape now. But, yeah, it's. It's challenging for young people. My brother and I talk about that all the time. It's like he's got kids that grew up with social media. Thankfully, they all turned out, you know, to be pretty well balanced, all things considered. He has three kids and he's a couple years older than me, so they're like in their late 20s and early 30s. But yeah, it's. It's a challenge. You know, I'm not. I'm not probably the right guy to ask about that. I've just been. [00:58:30] Speaker A: That's good advice. That. That is good advice, because there is a loneliness epidemic. Even though we have social media and so we're supposedly connected with everyone all the time, there's definitely. And this isn't just the younger generation, but especially the younger generation. I think there is a very. A sense of loneliness, a sense that I'm just on my own. And it's the dopamine. The connection comes through how many likes I get or whatever on my post. Post. [00:58:52] Speaker B: Yeah, that. [00:58:53] Speaker A: That is good advice of Seek out community in person, like to go do stuff and. [00:59:00] Speaker B: Right. [00:59:01] Speaker A: And then I. I guess the other thing would be, how would you motivate them as a group or as an individual to connect with God? Is that through reading their Bible? Would you say, like, pray for 15 minutes a day? I mean, for a kid, sometimes even a teenager. It's like I'm sitting here with my thoughts, and that's not a healthy place. I don't feel like I'm connecting with God. Like, what is. What is beneficial there? Maybe just. Just reading scripture or. [00:59:29] Speaker B: Well, let me be the cautionary tale of what happens when you don't read your Bible. Okay. I'm kind of a poster child for that. People say, so you're gonna like the story. I'll share this with you. That when I was getting kicked out of the Air Force, I. And I was telling you that all throughout my time in the military, there were people that were reaching out to me in their own unique way. This person I'D never met little old lady. I'm sitting out in the hot sun in Texas. You'll appreciate this. I was stationed down in Texas the whole time. So you can, you can about imagine how hot it is in like late July, early August. They had me up there waxing ambulances because I was attached to the hospital unit. So that was up on top of the hill. They wanted to embarrass me before they kicked me out the back gate. So I'm up there waxing the ambulances and this little old lady walks up to me and she goes, excuse me, sir, I want to give this to you. And she hands me a Bible track. And I remember saying clearly to her, I said, well, I really appreciate this man, but I don't think God has much to do with me. I'm an alcoholic and I'm about to get kicked out of the military for smoking marijuana. And you know what? Her words were to me, and I'll share the reason I'm sharing this with you is this, this applies to your question. She said, well, let me ask you your name, sir. And I said, well, my name is Mike. And she goes, mike, God loves you unconditionally and he loves the sinners. God died for the sinners. You know, he didn't die for these Pharisees and these other morons that thought they had the answers back in the day. He died for people like you that are seeking the truth, but they just don't know it yet, you know, and we had a really good conversation and that, that encounter stayed with me the entire time. Another one, I'll give you, same scenario is that when they were kicking me out before the ambulance vaccine, because that was just before I was getting booted. They first sent me to a treatment center way down in San Antonio, even though my base was up at shepherd, because as it turns out, I was smoking marijuana with the drug and alcohol. Counselors were the guys I was getting high with. So how's that for irony, right? And so they go, when the, when they met with me, they said, treating you up here with all the people that you were partying with is going to be no use. So we're going to send you down to Wilford hall in San Antonio for six week inpatient treatment, which I went to, obviously because I didn't have a choice. And one day they said, okay, Mike, you got to go down and get your blood drawn, right? So I go down to the lab and you got a picture. I don't know if you know what Wilford hall looks like down there, but it is massive. It's. So anyway, I walk. Walk into the lab, and the guy that was drawing my blood happened to me, my ex roommate, who was also a believer. And he goes, mike, what are you doing down here? Because he. He obviously got orders down to San Antonio from Shepherd and go, well, Glenn, it's not. Not for anything good. I'm getting kicked out of the military for smoking pot. And his message was basically echoing what that old lady up on the hill said to me. Wax and ambulances. And that was how unconditional God loves me and that he's been praying for me. He thinks about me all the time. So, yeah, God reaches out to people throughout their journey in life. At any age, he's going to be trying to reach them and, you know, to. To be able to discern when God's talking to you and when he's not. I'm kind of an expert on that because of the kind of the, you know, crazy turns in life that my path went down. But yeah, but yeah, it's. It's. It's a struggle for young people today. You know, like I mentioned, with the social media pressures and all the other stuff. So. But God, why do you think, yeah, God's gonna. God's gonna get him eventually. You know, he's got more power than the enemy does. So. But, you know, that's the question. [01:03:57] Speaker A: So why. Why do you think that there is so much. Because this is something that sort of was a frustration, a challenge for me. Why is there, in many cases, more focus put on the fear and the shame and the guilt and. And that aspect of it, instead of on the unconditional love of God for us. [01:04:19] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, I think I find this in my own life, Josh, is true, is that the. The more time I spend away from reading the Bible, in my case the Life Recovery Bible, the. The more my prayer life suffers, the more distant from God I feel. That doesn't mean I got to be in my Bible reading every hour of every day, but it's a just a reality on my own. I'm only speaking for myself that, you know, I see that in my own life, that when I get drawn away from it into other areas, you know, like, for me, the podcasting thing is awesome because I get to share my faith and that's what it's all about. You know, keeps you focused as well. Yeah, it helps me a lot. You know, and when I got emotional a while back with the. About the doctor, it's like, you know, there's just that, that love that God has for me now, I can see it so clearly. Being 60 and looking back on my life, I didn't always see it, especially when I was young, you know, so from that vantage point, I can relate to, to the young people because, because of my suicide attempt at 15, another one back in 2004. So, yeah, it's, it's been a journey, but through it all, God's been faithful, even when I wasn't. So. [01:05:49] Speaker A: And what do you think about the, the trend, talking about religion and, and pop culture and whatnot? [01:05:58] Speaker B: There. [01:05:58] Speaker A: There's a trend on social media and just in general with celebrities now becoming religious and in particular, most of them are converting to Catholicism, like some very high profile celebrities, Catholicism or Christianity. And. [01:06:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:06:14] Speaker A: Do you think that we are in a period of time, in history of, of change, of transition, of spiritual awakening, or is there something else going on with these people becoming Christian or Catholic that is maybe just a matter of people looking for answers because this world has become so secularized the last 20 years and so people are coming back to religion or, or what do you think is at the root of that? And is it good or is it. [01:06:44] Speaker B: I think everybody in their own journey realizes that they're not here for a very long time, that we're all here for a very short period of time in the eyes of eternity. So, no, you know, money can buy happiness. You know, you look at. I remember this story and I shared this in a podcast a couple days ago. And Prince, you know, from Minnesota, that's where I grew up, he was the big, big thing. And there was this documentary they did on him after he passed away from a fentanyl overdose. And it was his closest friends that were really tight with him. And one of the ladies comment was, well, first the guy was talking and he said, you know, had Prince growing up without the fame, without anything else, and he just had two or three kids and a normal quote unquote life. I think he would have died a lot more happy life than how he went out. You know, being, being in his fame and all this stuff, but miserable in life. He, he tried to convert to several different religions and that's why wasn't he. [01:07:55] Speaker A: A gentle story or something? I, I seem to remember that that's what he. [01:07:59] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what he converted to late in life. But then there was this photographer that traveled with Prince that said, I remember taking this picture of him out in front of this great big grand cathedral over in Spain or something. It was someplace over there. And he was in one of his designer suits. And I remember looking at him and just thinking to myself, he must be the loneliest man on the planet. It. And I think that's the great way to sum up, you know, like you were asking about these celebrities. They get to that point where nobody says no to them and they have the world at their feet, but they realize there's something more missing in my life to every one of them. You can go and look at Elvis or look, there's so many of them you can name that they get to that point and it's like life's gotta have a lot more meaning than what I'm experiencing. Even though I'm at the peak of so called fame or fortune or whatever. So. Yeah. [01:09:02] Speaker A: And so then they're. They're searching for God and, And right now that's sort of the. [01:09:06] Speaker B: That's the trend. Yeah. [01:09:08] Speaker A: Trend is. [01:09:09] Speaker B: And God's. God's seeking after them, you know, so they're meeting in the middle. [01:09:15] Speaker A: So you think it's a J. It's a genuine thing then from. [01:09:19] Speaker B: Well, I can't speak Condition. [01:09:22] Speaker A: Not the individuals, but just the, the trend of people in these dark times that really the world has been going through, especially the last, you know, five years and being so much more connected, where maybe we're just seeing it more because of social media, that people are professing their faith and talking about it more openly. [01:09:41] Speaker B: I always say to myself or to other people, you know, it's like this, this world in this current condition and shape cannot sustain itself. Whether you look at the US Economy being trillions in debt, debt, or you name it, with all the world's problems that, you know, it just cannot sustain itself. It can't. It's. I remember I was, I was a big fan of Rush Limbaugh before he passed away. And I had this job where I got to drive over into Minnesota and listen to his show every day for three hours when I was dropping off these medical supplies in these satellite clinics. And this was in the 90s and he was talking about that when. The year. I forget what he said, but it's, it's already past us, like 20 years ago or more that when that happens and we reach that tipping point that we will become a debtor's nation and we'll become this. That he was naming off all these things. And when I look back on what he was saying, it was like he was spot on. You know, that regardless of what side of the political you're on, it just. It cannot sustain itself where in our own government you got half that hate the other half and vice versa. And it's like, you know that it can't be solved by man, so it's got to be solved by the higher power. So do you think that that's going. [01:11:05] Speaker A: To be a catalyst in America specifically to, to bring the country together? Do you think that there has to be some sort of a, a spiritual awakening or religious coming together in order to, to bridge that, you know, right, left gap, which isn't actually. I mean, in our minds they divide it that way. But really a lot of the politicians on both sides are engaged in the same things behind the scene or they have. They, they do the same things once they get into office. Do you think that we need as, as a country, speaking of America, a return to the principles, I mean the principles that the country was built on, on in many ways were, were a Christian. [01:11:45] Speaker B: Judeo Christian. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. I was, you know, I was looking at something that happened that I caught my eye about two, three months ago. I remember that I was watching these old Billy Graham crusades, like reruns of those, and how attentive the audience was. And, and then he'd have the altar call and you'd see thousands of people come forward. And these days I saw the. Really kind of hit the point home was Franklin Graham was trying to preach overseas, like in the UK and stuff, and there were these people dressed in demonic suits and protesting or something protesting his visit. And it was like that's how much culturally we have shifted in one generation from his dad to Franklin is that we are just becoming more and more secular and demonic and Openly. Openly. Yeah. So it's got to end and got. You know, when you read the Bible and you see the prophecies in there, I. I've been doing a study with one of my groups out of Revelation. And it's like all that stuff is coming to fruition now. So there's not times. [01:12:59] Speaker A: Do you think we're. We're in. [01:13:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:13:02] Speaker A: Going through. [01:13:02] Speaker B: I have no doubt. Yeah. I have no doubt when I look around and. [01:13:07] Speaker A: Are you pre trip, mid trip or post trip? [01:13:10] Speaker B: Well, you know, there's. I'm not really swayed one way or the other. [01:13:15] Speaker A: Okay. [01:13:15] Speaker B: But, and to be totally honest, I don't. I'm not that well read up on Revelations. It's kind of a hard book to understand. That's why I'm doing the Bible study on it, to try and learn more. But yeah, I just, like I said, I Just can't. I can't, I can't see the world sustaining itself for a whole lot longer. And you know, it was like when I was sharing that with Brad when he passed away or just before he passed away, all the garbage that he gets gets to escape from and go up to eternity. And I joked with him and said, you and I are going to be up there playing volleyball together someday with all the beautiful girls. So give him something to look forward to that put a smile on his face, you know, get him focused out of his cancer pace, pain and onto something eternal to glam onto. So. But yeah, that's what we all need in this world today. Josh is, you know, more empathy, more understanding that the road to redemption is off, offered openly and willingly by God to everybody that seeks him. He said, if, if you shall knock, you know you will find me. If you seek and die, I'll answer. So that's, that's kind of my whole take on it, you know, from growing up Catholic and being an altar boy. You'll appreciate this. One of the times I remember being in, up on the altar that you could see the guys in and ladies in the church starting to nod off. So I would take my new watch I got for Christmas and like turn it and put the light on their eyes to try and get them to. [01:14:58] Speaker A: Wake up, like a reflection from the sun or something. [01:15:00] Speaker B: But yeah. [01:15:03] Speaker A: You'Re doing God's work just very subtly. Wake up, wake up, pay attention. Yes, you're here for a reason. But that's the thing is like people go through the motions because they feel like they have to go through the motions. I mean, I see it a lot in Latin America. Yeah, people will go and go through the motions or, or if something goes wrong in their life, then suddenly I, they're gonna go to, to Mass, you know, to go connect with God. Because everything's going wrong in my life and I haven't been there for 10 years. It's like, well, really, like is. I mean, I'm not going to judge you. It's good that you're going, but go deeper than that. Like maybe God wants you to connect every day instead of not just when something bad, you know, happens or, or, or whatever it is. One, one final follow up question on this. You, you mentioned, you know, eternal life. We're still here going through, in many ways, people are going through struggles and some people like hell on earth. So for people who are struggling with their faith, but who are genuinely seeking, what would be the one thing, just one thing One action that you would recommend that they take, say, the next 30 days. It's like if you're genuinely seeking, you're. You're genuinely looking to deepen your walk with God. This is the one thing that, if you start here, it's going to help you over the next month. Month to. To find God wherever they are. [01:16:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I'll. I'll share this with you. I think this answers you directly. I think that I would go into the Gospel of John and start there. I'm not much of an Old Testament guy. There's plenty of great stories from the Old Testament, but I'll be honest, and I spend most of my time in the New Testament reading that. And the Gospel of John is a great place to start because that's a lot of Jesus, you know, written by John, of course, that if. If you do follow that belief system like I do, that the Gospel of John is a great place to start because it's a lot of Jesus in his own words. So, you know, it talks about the red letters. Yeah, Read the red letters. Yeah. Get yourself. Because I had. When I was in treatment one time in Saint Cloud, I had that book, just. Just the individual book, book of the Gospel of John that I would read, not anything else from the Bible. And that helped me. So that's where I would recommend people start if they're really seeking God and they're reading that and again, get involved and reach out and try and get involved in small groups for the accountability piece and, you know, work on your prayer life. I remember this quote from Denzel Washington that you'll appreciate it if you've never heard it. He said, you know what I do? He was given a commencement speech somewhere, and he said, I put my slippers as far underneath my bed as I can every night, because that way, when I wake up in the morning, I have to get on my hands and knees to reach my slippers. So then I pray first. Wow. [01:18:06] Speaker A: I love Denzel. He's one of my favorite actors. So. [01:18:09] Speaker B: Yeah, he is. He's really good. Strong believer. So he just became an ordained minister, too. I don't know if. [01:18:16] Speaker A: Yeah, I saw that last fall. [01:18:17] Speaker B: That's. [01:18:17] Speaker A: That's one of the, you know, leaves me. Was the celebrity question is there's a lot of people like that. I. I saw that a couple months ago that Denzel became an ordained minister and. Yep. It's interesting. [01:18:30] Speaker B: Yeah. So there you go. Those. Those are my answers to the question, both from Denzel and both for me, reading John and getting in those Groups. [01:18:40] Speaker A: And really that, I mean that's where it is too is, is if someone is genuinely seeking like it, it has to be internal and yet it also, like there's, there's both parts. Like you said, find community so that you can learn together. You can talk about the ideas together. Looking not for who is right, but for what is right. [01:19:02] Speaker B: Right. [01:19:02] Speaker A: Seeking truth and then also internally read and pray and listen. That's, that's good advice. Yeah. [01:19:13] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't know if you got all you wanted out of me, but I can talk for hours. [01:19:20] Speaker A: Well, I absolutely appreciate your, your time in the conversation. It was, it was really interesting to hear your story and, and I, they wish you the best of luck in, in the event, go and have an awesome pitch. Hopefully they'll be able to make a movie out of your story. And this could, you know, you can spread your message with what you're doing to really, really make an impact on people. I mean, finding purpose is really the most important thing. So whether someone's going through good times or bad times, like there is a purpose for your life. Life and yeah, finding what that is and just living that and trusting that it's going to turn out the way it's supposed to. I mean, we're still here, so let's see it through to the end. Right? [01:20:05] Speaker B: That's, that's kind of my way I would sum it up too, Josh, is to say, you know, we all are here for a purpose. And I remember that book that was so well written by Rick Warren called the Purpose Driven Life. And if you ever spend time going through that, that it's well worth it because that puts you on a 40 day journey to kind of, you know, it's not reading the Bible, but there's a lot of scripture in there. So that's a, that's a good resource as well. So. But yeah, there's so much you can learn from the New, the whole Bible. But like I said, I, I don't, I don't, I'm not familiar with a lot of the Old Testament, so I know it leads into the New Testament. My brother, who is really, he and I talk about this stuff all the time. You know, he's kind of on the agnostic side of things but you know, he, he's more into, I don't know how to really define it well, but he's, he's questioning a lot, but he's seeking too. So, you know, I, I look at that as a positive thing. He's been having some health issues and you know, there's, there's something that will put people in touch with God right there and past is, you know, hey, you know, if you're starting to struggle health wise, which, you know, we all will eventually, then it's just a matter of time before God gets his hands on you either during the majority of your life or at the end. So, you know, that's. Yeah, that's comforting to me. [01:21:50] Speaker A: Well, Mike, I, I appreciate the good words and the stories and I wish you the best of luck with your book and with hopefully the TV or, or film, whatever ends up happening with your story and that people will be able to really understand the, the power of empathy and, and, and the power of, of God's unconditional love for them wherever they're at. [01:22:16] Speaker B: And the road to redemption, you know, we can't forget about that. That's. You know, I did, I've been doing these podcasts all over the world now. I've done them in several different countries since I've been on in January, and I did one the other night with a lady out of Hawaii that was born with no arms, but solid believers. And, you know, I look at her and I look at all these people I'm talking to and meeting with, and it's just been such a blessing to be able to open up and share my story and to touch people from all, all across the globe with that message. You know, had somebody told me, Josh, that, you know, when I was going through all those dark times, that someday I'd be able to be sitting in my own bedroom and doing a podcast and reaching people all over the world for the gospel, then I just would have laughed at him. But that was. God was faithful and brought me through it all. And he'll do that for you too, you know, so good luck with your newborn. I hope he can catch up on. [01:23:23] Speaker A: Some sleep, maybe in a few months. [01:23:27] Speaker B: My wife and I have one child, Jordan, who's going to be 30 in August, and he's. Everybody says he looks a lot like me too, so just gets passed right on down. Generation. Generations. Yeah. [01:23:40] Speaker A: And hopefully each generation will be better than the last. Hopefully we can raise those kids to, to be better than us, you know, in, in their understanding of life. Like the things that took me 40 years to figure out. I hope that I can instill in her, you know, when she. By the time she's 20, so that she can save a lot of the heartache and a lot of those difficult processes. Processes, you know? [01:24:02] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. [01:24:04] Speaker A: Yep. Well, Mike, it's been great talking to you. Great conversation. I think there's a lot of good nuggets in there that people are going to take. [01:24:10] Speaker B: So. [01:24:13] Speaker A: Like and subscribe.