Ep 8 - Dean Simone - Non-dualist Catholic Taoist Stoic

[00:00:01] Josh Galt: Today's guest is Dean Simone. [00:00:04] Dean Simone: A non dualistic viewpoint is basically the yin and the yang. You know, it's like they're the black and the white. There's white in the black. There's black and the white. It's all together. So we are together. It's a whole. There is no us and them. There is no me and you. It's like we're all one. There's no division to the, to the premise that we are all one, then it really does change everything. It changes the way that we look at everything and anything. And it certainly, it clarifies a lot of the reason that there are problems in the world. Right now, you're listening to the bad. [00:00:40] Josh Galt: At my religion podcast, hosted by Josh Gold. Let's just start with the big question, what is a non dualist Catholic Taoist? I say that right? [00:00:51] Dean Simone: You did. Well, you know, I, I too, like your wife was born and raised Catholic. You know, my kids are Catholic. My wife teaches at a Catholic school. So we are practicing Catholics. We go to church every week. One of my best friends is actually the priest at the church that we go to, Father Kevin. And basically I have complete Catholic beliefs. But Taoism is more of a philosophy than it is of a religion. And it's basically based on the Dao de Ching, which was written by Lao Tzu, I think in like the 6th century BC around there. And basically it's, it's really about like living in harmony. They call the Dao or the Way. And about the best way I could describe it is that the Way is like the Holy Spirit, you know, or it's just kind of like the, the flow of life and the flow of, of, of God. And you know, that's the basic gist of the way or the Dao. And now basically you live simple to your nature, to the nature around you. You're part of the whole thing. A lot of it has to do with effortless action in that you're not, you're not really always pushing and striving and grabbing, but you're letting things come to you a little bit as well. So it's, it's a lot about reading the flow of the boons and the blessings that we get and also the difficult times and flowing with that. So that's what Taoism is. [00:02:19] Josh Galt: Okay, and, and as far as a philosophical framework connected then to the religious aspect, why, why do you feel they need to have the extra philosophical component to your life? That is many, for many Catholics would probably be outside of the structure of Catholicism? [00:02:46] Dean Simone: That's a good question. I don't really think it's an addendum as much as I think that it is actually just part of it and part of understanding my Christianity and my beliefs in, in Christ. I, I think it's more of just helping you understand or helping one understand the nuts and bolts of it in terms of. I think there's a lot of misconception that occurs in the way that we perceive and we look at some of the teachings of Jesus. I think that Jesus was sent as a example. I think Jesus came as an example. I think he was a genius of consciousness. I think that the things that he was saying when he was talking about me and I, I think he was talking about the consciousness, me and I. And when he was talking about being one with the Father, I think that he was basically talking about us as, as a whole. In other words, he says, I am the way, the truth, the life, and no one comes to the Father except through me. So let's look at that and then let's say when he's talking about I and he's talking about me, he's talking about the collective conscious of I and me and the Jesus, the man from Nazareth, he's gone beyond that. He's transcended that already. [00:04:12] Josh Galt: Yeah. [00:04:13] Dean Simone: So if you look at that statement, I am the way and the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me. Meaning that as George Harrison says, it's so far out. The way out is in. God's here and he's there and he's everywhere. [00:04:30] Josh Galt: Right. [00:04:30] Dean Simone: And so I, I think that the Taoism as well as the non, dual, non duality is very, very important to me. [00:04:40] Josh Galt: Explain a little more on that, on that aspect. [00:04:42] Dean Simone: Okay, So a non dualistic viewpoint is basically, it's, it's, you know, it's, it's the, the yin and the yang, you know, it's like they're the black and the white. There's white in the black, there's black in the white. It's all together. So we are together. It's a whole. There is no us and them. There is no me and you. It's like we're all one. There's no division to the, to the premise that we are all one. Then it really does change everything. It changes the way that we look at everything and anything. And it certainly clarifies, it clarifies a lot of the reason that there are problems in the world right now, especially you being in Mexico. I'm sure you're keenly aware of the partisan politics that exist here and the divisions that exist. And we live in such an us and them world that I think non dualistic viewpoint says we're one. Come together, be together with, with that. And I think that's what Jesus was saying and I think what's what a lot of people were saying. [00:05:52] Josh Galt: It's really interesting because I, I come at it from that side. So this is, this is gonna be a fascinating conversation. I come at it much more from this. Sounds like some of the Walter Russell and a couple other authors from like 100 years ago that were touching on this topic of, of divine consciousness, universal oneness, etc. So my question now is where does the Catholicism play into that? Because for me, my journey was coming from very strict fundamentalist religion on the evangelical Christian side and then going and exploring the world and many other religious and philosophical frameworks, etc. And arriving at the point of, of. Of that. Of connection there. These divisions are artificially induced. Like we are connected to God, all of us, and our own unique little part of God evolving itself is sort of the way that I look at things. So where does the. Oh, I'm also a Catholic. Where. How does that play into it? Because this seems like it's bringing back in division. [00:07:01] Dean Simone: No, well, not Catholicism as I know it. And if you really look at. I mean, certainly you're, you're right in what you're saying. There is a lot of division in Catholicism. There's very much left and right within Catholicism too. I think Catholicism is sort of my delivery system of choice simply because I grew up with it and I know it and I'm familiar with it. And I feel like your fundamentalist background was correct. Buddhist background is correct. Vedic backgrounds are correct. It's all correct. Because the way that I look at it is it's just the delivery system. What do you call a hat? You're walking down the street, you know, you see a guy's wearing the same hat as you, and they says, you know, oh, I like your hat. No, no, no, no, that's not how. It's a chapeau, you know. You know, it's a hat, Poe. It's the same thing. So I call it a hat. So to me, it's easier for me to digest it in a Catholic sense because that's what I grew up with. It works for me and it's just natural and comfortable for me. So when I go to the Catholic Mass, I feel at home, I feel at ease. And it's a surrounding that I'm used to. And the. I look at it this way, our chance, our rituals, the things we do, our holidays, it's just as valid as anybody's are and it just speaks to me. But I certainly don't say, well, you've got to be a Catholic or you've got to be like this. And I feel the same way about fundamentalists. In terms of your background. I know it sounds like you're at a different place now, but for you it sounds like the journey said grew up fundamentalists had these fundamentals teachings, Bible reading, Bible, Bible. So I'm sure you and I could quote Bible stuff back and forth, but for you it took you to another place where you needed a different delivery system, which is completely fine. It's completely cool. [00:09:04] Josh Galt: Do you get criticism though from, from those around you who are Catholic for, for connecting with those other aspects in, in your framework? [00:09:13] Dean Simone: No, I don't. In fact, like, honestly, Kevin literally is one of my best friends and he is, he is the most open minded. You know, he's, he's liberal politically and open minded as a human and we talk about stuff all the time. But we just had a conversation two days ago. He was talking about Black Elk. You know, Black Elk, he was, he was, he was an Indian, not a Native American mystic. Not Indian like Gandhi, but Native American mystic who had these visions that were very much like Revelations. I mean if you read Black Elk. [00:09:51] Josh Galt: The book, see Hopi or because I remember I've seen something. I think it was a Hopi tribe that like had. [00:09:58] Dean Simone: I don't know if he was. And I've read the book, Black Elk speaks many times and I don't know that's escaping me right now. I'm not sure. But I do know this. He became Catholic and from what I understand, he's going to be, he's going to be made a saint. So they're going to, you know, wow. So there you go. In fact, Kevin just told me this a couple days ago, so. No, Kevin is very open minded towards it. I don't know what Catholic churches are like in other places. I know you being in San Diego. I lived in San Diego for a while too. In fact, I went to high school for a little while down there and we went to a church in San Diego and it was very much Catholic church and absolutely having none of this thought process of like what I'm saying right now would be heretical. [00:10:43] Josh Galt: Yeah, exactly. [00:10:45] Dean Simone: It would be like no man. So I guess it really just depends on the priest and you know, the Order, too. That's the other thing. The. [00:10:53] Josh Galt: The individual as well. That. That's where. I mean, so we. We just recently got married and. [00:10:59] Dean Simone: Congratulations. [00:11:00] Josh Galt: Part of. Thanks. It was. Well, yeah, it's been fast. It was like a year ago. It seems like yesterday. But part of. Part of leading up to it was like, talking about this specific issue because I'm like. Like, you know, she knew I came out of religion, and I'm very. Not within a religious framework. I believe in God. I believe in that God is love. I believe in, you know, treating people well and, you know, living the Ten Commandments, being a good person, all those things. But also there's a lot of beauty in scripture, et cetera. My own personal journey, though, I have seen so much overlap from different religions and different philosophical frameworks and whatnot. And also I've seen a lot of, like, really horrible people in the chur. And so we came to the point of agreeing to disagree in this specific thing, because for me, I believe God is big enough to meet someone wherever they are. And that's something that we share, is a desire to connect directly with God, but from a different position. But there's other people who don't agree with that, where it's like, I can say, oh, it's cool if you're that religion. Like, if you're genuinely seeking, that's what's important. And that's sort of at the core of why I started this podcast. I want to talk to people and learn more and talk to people especially who are. Who are really seeking and being good examples of their religion, whatever it is, because there's so many that aren't. And yet those are the people who aren't necessarily living according to the integrity of the principles they say that they espouse, who are going to judge me and say, no, no, God can't meet you where you are, even though, like, you're genuinely seeking God because you have to be in my religious framework. [00:12:39] Dean Simone: It's like, well, that's interesting, as you know, growing up evangelical, because it's like, we know growing up with Christian scripture, one of the main things that Jesus says is, judge not, lest you be judged. [00:12:54] Josh Galt: Absolutely. So the speck in his eye or, you know, get rid of the law. [00:12:59] Dean Simone: Exactly. Pick up, you know, who's without sin. Pick up the first stone. You know, here's the thing, Josh. I. There are good and bad people in every walks of life, and I think that there are many, many more good people than there are not. And there are even good people that do Bad things. So I think that's part of Jesus's message is he's saying love, love the person. Don't necessarily have to love the act. [00:13:27] Josh Galt: Absolutely. [00:13:28] Dean Simone: You can look at the act and say that act no good. But the person, I will still love that person. Somebody who's engaged in that sort of judgment, judgmental approach clearly is not getting Jesus's message. Because if you really stop and think about it again, I'll go back to this. I think that if we look at Jesus and we say that Jesus was a living, breathing, spiritual roadmap sent from God, from consciousness, from the, the Creator of all, from the essence of love, from, from our God, and he got it completely. So let's say that Jesus was the spirituality what Einstein is to math and science. So let's say he got it completely, but he was just born in that, that era and that time. So what does Jesus do? If we look at, if we look at almost everything that he always, consistently does, Jesus is always about transcending and including transcend. Include tax collectors, prostitutes, people that, with leprosy, people that are unclean. And he consistently, consistently does that. [00:14:52] Josh Galt: Yeah. [00:14:53] Dean Simone: Here's the really interesting thing that I find about Jesus. And, and I love Jesus on every level. But, but more so, I love the Christ because I think Jesus became the Christ and it became a bigger thing than that man from Nazareth. But think about this. In those days, these messiahs, as they were coming along, they were like rock stars. They were, these rabbis were sort of traveling rock stars. There was a lot of them that was going on quite a bit in those times. Everybody was looking for the scriptures to be fulfilled. So Jesus comes along and he's like the Beatles. I mean, he's, he is the rock star of the time. Now think about this for a minute, which is I, I had just read this not long ago and it was really a fascinating take. When you went to town in that tradition, when you went to a new town, the thing was, was the most important person in the town, the person that everybody was like, okay, that's, that's the guy that's, that's the person is going to let us know if this person's cool or not. They would invite you to dinner, you'd sit to dinner with them, and they'd say, well, what is it that you're about? Well, tell us about your, tell us about your perspective. And they would determine where he was at. And it was like an honor that you were invited and they were honored to have this, you know, spiritual rock star come to their house. And consistently, Jesus, if you look at many times in the Bible, he says, no, I'm not going to go to your house. I'm going to go to that tax collector's house or I'm going to eat with these prostitutes, or I'm going to. And. And so he consistently included, included, included. So back to your original point. Why would we as Christians exclude. That's what judgment is. It's exclusion. It's like, josh, you're not doing this the way you should. You're out of my Christian club. You're out. [00:16:46] Josh Galt: No, that's exactly what it is. Yeah. [00:16:48] Dean Simone: It's got nothing to do with Jesus. It's got nothing to do with him at all. [00:16:52] Josh Galt: Do you think it can go too far the other way, though? And, and not to get off in the weeds on, on political hot topics or anything, but just in general, I, I've seen, you know, over the last 20 years or so that there's. There's also been something in. In the church where it's like permissibility, because it's kind of going the other way to the point of, like, it doesn't matter what people do, what they are, whatever. We're going to love them and accept them. And that, in a way, to me, is also kind of being bad at your religion because you're saying, these are my frameworks. This is my principles. These are the commandments that I believe that God said. In fact, even further, this is the only way that according to my religion that you can get to eternal life. But at the same time, while I'm gonna claim that, I'm also gonna claim that, oh, no, everything is permissible, everything's okay, we're just gonna love them anyway. So it's kind of like a contradiction of the love gospel with what the Bible actually says. And it's like, at that point, you almost, in my opinion, would be better to just leave the religion and have a different philosophical framework for your life, because you're not following the tenants of the religion that you say that you're following. [00:18:11] Dean Simone: Well, you're following the tenants, possibly. But what you're doing then is you're basically saying, Dean isn't following the tenants, so he really shouldn't be in this religion. And again, it goes back to not to judge. So let's look at it this way. Let's go with the supposition that we are all one. That, you know, what's the John quote? You'll know that I'm in the Father and you and me And I and you. So let's. Let's take that at face value of exactly what it is that he's saying. So if we're all one, you and I are one. And let's take it another step. We're all one. And we actually have all the answers, all of the answers to everything. The universe, to God, to consciousness, to everything that's going on. We all have it. Oh, we're in this human suit. And your human suits, Josh. And my human suits, Dean, and this human suits this person, and that one's that one. So we can look at it and again, we could say, well, you know, maybe your human suit doesn't fit in the same closet with my human suit. Fine. That's your decision, not mine. See, my decision is that I like tweed and I like to wear, you know, maroon with brown. And I like this. And this is how I like to dress. And it works for me. Whatever works for you, that's your decision. What's not? My decision is to throw you out. Now, if that delivery system of Catholicism works for me, the delivery system, why can't I do it? Why can't I not say, give me that. Give me these things that work for me, but not say, but you can't have it because you're not following the rule. That rule is theirs. What did Jesus say in one of the most famous scriptures, when they bring in. They bring in Mary, supposedly Mary, and they throw her down there and they're. They're get ready to stone her. And he says, he's. He was whatever, without sin, let him cast the first stone. And then every single person drops the stone and leaves. And then he says to Mary, where are your accusers? And she says, you know, they've gone. And basically he says, I'm not going to judge you. I forgive you. If Jesus can do that. And he is my sample. He is my example. He is my template. I've got no problem with doing that within the tenets of Catholicism because I view that judgment as pointless, truly pointless. And that's why, I don't know, permissive to look at somebody like that. Let me ask you a question, and I can tell you're very well versed on all this stuff. When did Jesus ever. When was Jesus never permissive with a person who approached him? [00:21:06] Josh Galt: Probably the only thing that I can think of is my favorite Jesus, which is the one in the. With the whip in the temple, casting out the money changes. Other than that, it was always the downtrodden, the, you know, the. The weak, the Humble, the infirm, etc, and, and that's what he said too, right? Like, I, I didn't come to, to heal those who are not in need of a physician that came to heal the sick. [00:21:27] Dean Simone: Heal the sick. But when he's casting out the money changers, he's not saying, you're a piece of crap and you're terrible and you're a horrible human being. And he's saying, what you're doing is wrong. You are turning my father's house into a den of thieves. So he's clearing the deck. And if you stop and think about it, if you look at it figuratively or you actually, it literally, he is clearing the deck, he is cleaning it. And in that same verse he talks about, not one stone will be standing from this temple. I'm gonna, I'm gonna tear it down and raise it up again. Well, he's talking about us. This is the temple, right? And he's saying, like they say, the Buddhists say, you know, die before you die. You know, it's like, understand that this is only temporary. You and I, and we are one, we're eternal. And this moment that we're passing through here with our human suits on, the best thing that we can do is exactly what you and I are doing right now, which is just going, you know, discussing it, finding the commonplace, and including, including, including, including. [00:22:44] Josh Galt: So it's really, really interesting that, that I, I talked to a, a rabbi the other day who was explaining how the fundamental thing in Judaism is getting together and debating the law because they believe that God is the law. And it was interesting to hear him talk about that, Ed, because it's something that I've never. And you just alluded to it and it, it connected, it clicked for me in terms of, like, the way I grew up. There was lots of fighting and it often turned into like, what is now seen on the Internet, which is name calling and people getting mad at each other, etc. And so I, I determined that I am going to live my life. When I am arguing with someone about something, I want to focus on the fact, on the action, on the thing, and not on all of the other stuff that you can call a person names or whatever. And when I started learning Spanish, I realized that English is really bad at, at to be. English is terrible at defining you are something, whereas Spanish does a great job of it. Ser versus estar. So ser is to be, and it's a permanent characteristic, right? I am, I'm a guy, I'm a gringo. Like that's permanent. I can't change that. But estar is. I'm sitting here in this room. I won't be in another, you know, an hour, two hours. I'll be sitting somewhere else. I'll be doing something else. So it's temporary. It's an action. And I thought that that was the most beautiful thing ever that English lacks, because that's really at the core. When we fight or when we argue about anything, first of all, start from that place of permanent versus temporal, and then focus on the action. And then focus on. Like you're saying, like, we're. We're. We're energy. We're magnets in a meat suit. Right. We're just spiritual beings having a human experience and suit. [00:24:30] Dean Simone: I like that. I. [00:24:32] Josh Galt: Still. From somewhere else, from some other book I read. But it's a. It's a temporary thing. And so the actions are what we should look at as opposed to the. The permanent. So that's what I like about the. The idea of what you're constructing for yourself. I think that's actually a really good example because you're saying, like, I am these things. I'm going through life as these things, but it's. It's more of an estar. While you are being on this journey here, this is your framework that helps you to be like Christ, to walk through this else. And other people take religion or their. Their belief system, and they say, s. I am a Christian. And if you are not the same, then we have no connection because I will not commune with the devil sort of thing. It's like, well, wait a second. Like, none of us are permanent here on this earth in this journey, you know. Right. [00:25:27] Dean Simone: Yeah. No, you. You hit the nail right on the head. And to your point, I, you know, I grew up. I'm a. I'm mostly Italian. In fact, I did it. I did a film a few years ago that I wrote and I was in it, and I was one of the producers on it called Game Day. And it's. It's a pretty harsh movie. And it's. It's somewhat based on my family, but not entirely. And there's a great deal of fighting and combative behavior that goes on. And I grew up with a lot of that also A very loving family, but a combative family. And I'll tell you something, Josh, this is one thing about non. Dualism that I think is very important. All these points that you're saying, and I'm not. Not to negate what the rabbi said to you a couple weeks ago. Because again, if that's, if that's the delivery system of that faith, then that's how they test ideas. And great. My viewpoint is. And I'm sure you talk to so many people, and I don't know if it's ever gotten heated on your show or not or, you know, you have conversations. [00:26:27] Josh Galt: No, I just, I just started. So we started in December and it took a month off because we had a baby, so. But I'm passionate about it, so I'm. [00:26:35] Dean Simone: Sure I can tell you're knowledgeable about it too. So my, My deal is when you're having a conversation with somebody and if you're looking at it and the point of the conversation is not to say figure, let's figure out who's right. If the point of the conversation is to ascertain knowledge is to get to know the other person, is to get to know that other viewpoint. I. I didn't do that for years. Years and years and years. I have three sons. I have a grandson who you may be able here, he's 1 years old, selling in the other room. [00:27:07] Josh Galt: That's awesome. [00:27:08] Dean Simone: So. But I was, I was guilty of this for a very long time of, of who's right, who's wrong. If you take wrong and right out of the equation again back to maybe religion doing the same, you take wrong and right out of the conversation and you just connect and talk and share ideas and the, in the bait and the, the point is not to win or to lose, but to gain knowledge. [00:27:41] Josh Galt: Yes. [00:27:41] Dean Simone: I wish I would have started doing that when I was in my 20s and 30s and 40s. I did not. And unfortunately, I think I wasted a lot of time and, you know, went through some relationships I didn't really need to lose or go through because I was just so dogmatic about, I gotta be right, I've got to do this. And I think I did too much of that with my own sons too. They're all great, and they've all turned out great. My youngest is 17, so he's getting ready to find out what colleges today, actually. So I got better, though, and over the past 10 years, I think my life has changed. So I do think that in terms of arguing and debating, I do think that if we could just get past that, especially this country right now, and just get past, would be a big boon for us as a people. [00:28:42] Josh Galt: Absolutely. And regardless of what the faith framework is, that's sort of at the heart of this, is like, if people were able to really embody the essence of what they Say that they believe and their connection with God in their way, and they just lived that. I think the world would be a much better place. There'd be much less division. But right now, like, what's happening in the world, what's happening politically and especially in the west, there is also a shift towards the spiritual and towards the religious. I'm sure you're very familiar with this, being in, In LA and being in the movie industry. There's a lot of celebrities that are coming. Coming to Christ, let's say. I was going to say coming out, but it's the opposite term. They're. They're becoming religious and they're becoming very vocal about it. Some. Some are more fundamentalist Christians and others. [00:29:33] Dean Simone: Are Catholic, like Mark Wahlberg and. [00:29:35] Josh Galt: Mark. Yeah, Mark Wahlberg with the Halo app. What's the guy's name? Rusty Rockets. I forget. His. His. His real name. The comedian. Russell Brand. Russell Brand, the uk. Denzel Washington just became an ordained minister. I'm not sure exactly. [00:29:51] Dean Simone: He grew up very fundamentalist, though. [00:29:53] Josh Galt: Yeah, yeah. But. But it hasn't been something like, he's one of my favorite actors. And so it's. It's something where. [00:30:00] Dean Simone: Brilliant man. [00:30:01] Josh Galt: He's so talented, amazing. But it's. It's not something. I know that he's got lots of quotes. And, and actually I have a friend who played volleyball, I think, with. When his son was at San Diego, University of San Diego, or his daughter. [00:30:14] Dean Simone: I don't remember who, but he's an actor now, maybe. [00:30:19] Josh Galt: No, my friend was. She played on the. The volleyball team down there, and she said that Denzel would come sometimes, and she was the one that told me that he was a Christian. And I was like, really? But there's a difference between sort of being behind the scenes a believer or, or religious, and then now, like, hey, I'm an ordained minister and coming out. Or like, Russell Brand is just everything that he does now. He used to be a comedian and partying and all this stuff, and now it's all about Christ. And so there is a trend, I think Candace Owens, another one, like, she's very. A political commentator, but now it's like, it's all about. She's become Catholic and she's putting that out there. So what do you think about the roots of that and what's happening? Not to. Not to be judgmental because. Staying away from that. Right. But just what is happening that is leading people who are on that level of celebrity and wealth and just success in life, let's say, to suddenly at this time in history, be like, you know what? I need to find God and share that with everybody. [00:31:23] Dean Simone: I think that especially, and I think that's something that's maybe the greatest gift that celebrities can give us by example is to say, I've had all these accolades, I've made all this money, I've done all this great work, I've done all these things. And yet something in here tells me there's more to it, there's more to all of this than that. So I think celebrities are in a very unique spot to be able to do exactly what brand is doing and what Denzel Washington is doing, which is to basically say there's more to this than that. And I think that that's essentially what's going on. I think as we live in this world right now, what's occurring is there's people that, that are making the decision to dig in deeper into the foxholes, into the trenches, and to fight back and forth. And then I think there's a good deal of people like, like yourself, like, like me that are like, okay, we've got to. This doesn't feel like it's anywhere. This feels like it's not where it's at and we want to go to another place. And I think that these high profile people are picking up a lot of the same thing that we're picking up now. I'm going to shift gears a little bit here because it's going to sound, this is going to sound really crazy, but there's another podcast that's out right now. Yours is great. Not sending people to another place, but, but I, but I think you should check this out too, if you haven't already. [00:32:57] Josh Galt: Okay. [00:32:58] Dean Simone: They're called the, it's called the telepathy tapes. [00:33:01] Josh Galt: Yeah, I've been reading about that. It's like all over Twitter the last few weeks. And they went on Rogan as well. [00:33:07] Dean Simone: Right, exactly. So this thought process that these people that are not only non verbal, but they call them non speakers or spellers, these people have completely. They look at it like it's telepathy, but really what it is is it's consciousness. They have completely clicked in to consciousness. It's out there. And we as a people, I feel just an opinion, but I feel that we have grown past our old paradigms. We've grown past the viewpoint that all that is has to be material. All that is has to be the hard atoms. It's got to be material. It's what here? If it's, if it's outside of that then it clearly can't be real. But I think that that is being shattered now. Can you imagine what it's going to be like for my grandson Bowie, what his life's going to be like? You know, he's going to. It's changing. And we are right in the middle of what I believe is a spiritual awakening as a. As a group. And I think that it's so beautiful to see people like Denzel Washington and a lot of people like that saying, I'm going in this direction while there's still a lot of people fighting. And I wish for their sakes that they could let go of the fight and just say, we're one. How do we do this? You know, how do we get through this? That's where it's going. And I think that it's great that these celebrities are recognizing it, because I think they have the ability to set an example for people who are not celebrities. They look towards it. They see what they're doing. [00:34:54] Josh Galt: Yeah. And. And it's, in a way, I think that there's been a lot of social capital spent by celebrities over the years politically to where it makes it harder for the celebrities now that are attempting to use their celebrity capital in a spiritual way. It makes it harder because people are perhaps more resistant or more judgmental of everything that. That these people do. But you're. I mean, there'll always be haters. I think they're making a positive impact on people, which is. Which is wonderful. Where do you see, though, the difference between. Because we were talking about consciousness and the telepathy tapes and. And those. Those people who are still maybe much more connected to the other side. Someone like Joe Dispenza, for example, who's very much. I mean, his books are really interesting, all about this and talking about consciousness and tapping into that, both individually and collectively and whatnot. He doesn't have any sort of connection, at least from. I mean, I've read two or three of his books with religion. It's. It's more just strictly consciousness and. And what we are capable of accessing that versus someone like Russell Brand, for example, who's. Whose podcast went from being comedy to politics to now, like the last year. So it's just strictly about his faith in Jesus. Both of them, I guess we could say, are consciousness evolving and working itself out through those people and through their purpose. But is there one that is going to have more of a positive impact in this time? Is it. Do we. Do we pigeonhole ourselves into continuing the divisiveness if we say I am this religion versus hey, we are all the, you know, focus more on the non dual than on the Catholic part. For example of we are all connected, we are all one, we are all connected with God and we're all connected with each other and with everything in nature, every living thing. And, and some, some say like I think it's Walter Russell that talks about how like even in the essence of the hard atoms there is consciousness. Like a rock is going to have accent because. And it makes sense from a logical perspective as well. If, if God is omnipresent, well that means everywhere. That includes the atoms of a rock. Right. But is, are we, are we continuing the divisiveness? I guess is a question or I mean saying, oh, I'm just spiritual. That also then puts you, puts you into a framework that gets judged as well. Right. So I guess it's an individual thing more than I'm just trying to find like what's this? What's the best path to really make a positive impact? [00:37:33] Dean Simone: The best path is your path. [00:37:34] Josh Galt: Yeah. [00:37:35] Dean Simone: And the best path is my path. So I feel the best path, the best path is, you know, anybody's path. Anybody. We're all invited to the table, we're all sitting at the banquet. I'm going to eat this, you're going to eat that. I like to eat this, she likes to eat that. We're all eating food, we're all taking in the nutrition. We're all part of that table. I think that the only choice is to not worry. If that person likes tomatoes and that person hates eggs and that person likes steak and this one likes chicken and it doesn't matter. What matters is we saddle up to the table, we eat, we all get the spiritual nutrition and you move on. If somebody wants to be, oh, I'm spiritual. If someone wants to say, oh, I'm Catholic. If someone wants to say they're a Buddhist, that's part of the reason that I said non dualistic Dallas Catholic because I firmly connect with those things. That's my thing. You know, I like, give me a nice, you know, give me a nice steak with, you know, some, you know, a nice salad and, and some, you know, green beans. And you know, I just love that, you know, that works for me, that may not work for them. And my point is if we are open to the fact that we are sort of these spiritual salads with a lot of things thrown in there, it's okay. That's what I think is difficult about the two party system not to Change this to a political. I think that it's very difficult to say. Everything that the Democrats feel, that's how I feel. Everything that the Republicans feel, that's how I feel. None of us fall into that. We're all, you know. And I think religion is, is the same exact way. So to me, I think it's really great when I hear people, I take a little of this and a little of that and this is what I do. And this is the restaurant I like to eat at. Being this is the church I like to go to or I don't like to go to church, I like to meditate, whatever. It's all good. What does Jesus say? I'm going to my father's house and going to his mansion. In his mansion there are many rooms. Well, what's he talking about there? I think it's pretty self explanatory what he's saying. He's saying the Christ is bigger than the man. The Christ is everywhere. There's a great book by Richard Rohr, the Universal Christ. I love Richard Rohr. I think he's a phenomenal writer and I, I just love, I love the way he presents things. [00:40:12] Josh Galt: All right, I'll check it out. I love reading, so. [00:40:15] Dean Simone: Oh yeah, Richard Rohr is, I think he's one of the most important writers and I just love him. He's such an honest guy. And he's a Catholic priest. Absolutely. Just so broad minded. He talks a lot about the Jesus and the Christ and let me ask you a question and, and I, I, I, by the way, I think that the topic of your pot, your podcast is, it's fascinating. So I'm really thank, thank you for doing this and having this and I thank you be a part of it, man. It's really a cool, appreciate it. So when I talk to Christians and I, and I, and I love Christians, I always ask them, why did Jesus have to be sacrificed? Why did Jesus have to be crucified? What was the reason for that? And it's always interesting to hear people's perspective on what that is. I've had very close friends who are priests. One of my closest friends is a priest. And I don't know, I have not, I have yet to hear somebody give me an answer where I was like, yeah, that, that's, I think that's it. So I'm going to ask you, okay, why do you think Jesus had to be crucified? Why do, what was the reasoning behind that? [00:41:42] Josh Galt: It's a good question because for me personally, like, I, I think I'm more in the place of, I need to go back and investigate that from the way that I think and see the world and feel things now versus the conflict and the arguments that I have continued to have with people of like, so why did Jesus have to die? Why that doesn't make sense that God would send his Son just to sacrifice him, whose fault is sin, who created evil. And then it gets into that. And that's sort of where I've been. Why would Jesus have needed to die if he. He was. I mean, maybe it was a, a physical thing because he had already transcended this physical body as a spiritual being. And so he came to be an example to show us, like, you can die to yourself into your ego. And these are just a temporary thing that if you truly want to connect with God, if you truly want to connect with the, the Creator, that you do have to die to the material. That is the, the trap or, or not so much the trap, but it's like, it's kind of the deception that we have to struggle with. It's our challenge in this journey is the material, the temporal, the earthly. And, and that's what maybe the example was, being willing to die to that. Because then what happens that the, the story is he rose from the dead and then ascended into. To heaven. So it's kind of like metaphorically, whether it happened for real or whether it was. It's a, you know, an example. It's dying to ourselves in this material world to connect with God in a much more real and intimate way, perhaps. [00:43:18] Dean Simone: In a broader sense. And he says, he says to his. That's. That's a, that's a beautiful viewpoint of it. And I, and I think that, that, that that's it. And I, and I think that he said I when he said I have to do this, that I will. That basically he was saying, and I'm paraphrasing, but it was like, I have to do this because I will be more effective for you all if I do this. So I pause with this question. What if the second coming of Christ, when Christ comes again and they talk about this and it's certainly in Revelations and it's peppered throughout the New Testament. So maybe the second coming is the church. Maybe the second coming is the church of Denzel Washington and of Josh and of Dean and of Father Kevin and my grandson Bowie and all these people that are now moving to this next place, this next spot, maybe that's the second coming of Christ because Christ became bigger than Jesus, the man Jesus the man was just Jesus the man. And I think you hit it right on the head. I think that it is, he is saying, you've gotta, you've got to die to this. Because that's where it's at. This in, deep, in here is where it's at. This and our connection together, that's where it's at. That's where the non dualistic thing I think is so critical. And again I go back to it. Think about this statement. If we say, if Jesus says I am the way and the truth and the life and no one comes to the Father except through me. Again, if he's talking about the I and the me as the collective I and the collective me, that puts a whole different spin on what that is. That's why he says, he says something to the effect that whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do and greater works than these he will do. This is clear, these are, these, these are clear statements. This isn't, this isn't wavering or wishy washy. He's not saying, you're down there, I'm up here, you're that, I'm up here. Go to your corner, I'll let you know. That is not what he's doing. [00:45:58] Josh Galt: But why is, Sorry, go ahead, finish. [00:46:02] Dean Simone: Go ahead. [00:46:03] Josh Galt: Why is it so challenging? And this, maybe, maybe this was unique to the way I grew up. But I, I've seen this, I think, in a lot of religion. Why does that get twisted? The I'm up here and you're down there thing, it does come through in a lot where these lower frequencies like shame and guilt and fear, those are the ones that are used by mass religion, let's say many times, or individuals within religion to control and to manipulate other people. And I've always, on, on some level, I always felt like that's not God's love. Like what you are doing to me right now and what you are saying is scriptural or whatever, like that's not, that's not God's love. Even when I was a kid and, and as an adult, like, it just seems, it seems like there's so much of that that dominates religion in general, especially fear and shame and guilt. So where does that come from? And why? And, and is it, is it going to require people individually just realizing like you're saying, like, this is my church and this is my framework and I'm not going to judge you. And that also is very, very difficult for us as humans. It's like one of the big challenges is not judging other people. And usually it's a projection. Right. Carl Jung or Freud, they. To say about that. But. Right. [00:47:35] Dean Simone: Yeah. And. And Eleanor Roosevelt. My. One of my favorite quotes in what is other people's opinion of me is none of my business. You know, I've always said, I. I feel that the point of what Jesus was saying and what he has been trying to impart is very opposite of what some church hierarchy tries to do. Not all Jesus talked about. All those people he talked about. You know, you put. You put these rules on people. They. What is it in vain? They worship me teaching as doctrine the commandments of men. Okay, there it is right there. I mean, he's saying it. You know, it's like your rules have become more important than the actual facts of what it is. That's that it's about again, transcend include. Transcend include. So if somebody is coming at you and saying, you got to do it this way or you got to do it that way, and I'm setting up these rules and don't break these rules, that your. Your instinct has been right. It's. Of course it's right. It's got nothing to do with what the teaching is. It has nothing to do with the message. But let's face it, Josh, you can look through Old Testament, New Testament, and you can look through anything from Martin Luther King to Gandhi to John Lennon, people that come to this world on this plane and say that stuff they killed. That's really what it comes down to. Nobody wants to hear that. So to answer your question, that these people are using fear, and it's not many of them, there's some, but the people that do that, they're using fear to control people because that's the best way to do it in this world, unfortunately. [00:49:31] Josh Galt: And what's the way to break free from that, do you think? To. If somebody is in, you know, is a devout believer and they can feel there's something that's not right about the. The guilt and shame that they're under or whatever. And maybe it's when. When you're younger you feel that because that's sort of what. But all of the leaders and, you know, maybe your parents as well or whoever, they kind of put you on that because they're trying to. They're trying. I think a lot of it is genuine. Maybe. Maybe I'm judging too much in. In that it's manipulation. Maybe a lot of it is genuine of like, this is what I believe is best for you. And so I'm gonna try and force you to go down this road of do and do not. When what that's actually doing to a kid or someone when they're younger is filling them with shame because of, oh, well, I thought that, I thought it was okay, whatever, so we don't give it back. [00:50:23] Dean Simone: We pass it on. [00:50:24] Josh Galt: Yeah. [00:50:25] Dean Simone: And so, you know, that that's. That. Excuse me, Teed down the wrong pipe. Yeah. I think that that has become a way that we can control people. That we can. It's the best way to control people. To say again, it's not the best way. Morally, it's the best way. It's effective. And I think that's. It's going to take a long time for that to go away. But again, the less we draw the divisions, the more we look at life in a non, Dual, dualistic way, the less effect that's going to have. Because when someone's saying it, you can look at them and go, well, okay, that's what you think. Great. That's what you think. Doesn't affect me one way or the other. It doesn't even touch me. You know, it's, that's fine. That's how you look at it. Also with all of this stuff. I also very much believe in the Stoic virtues, and I think those things are extremely important. And I think that's another thing. When you're looking at justice, wisdom, courage, temperance, I think that those, those things fall into play too. And justice, I think, has a lot to do with equanimity, and justice has a lot to do without, with, with not trying to manip. And to move people. So you don't even have to be religious. [00:51:47] Josh Galt: Absolutely. [00:51:48] Dean Simone: Live by those tenets. [00:51:49] Josh Galt: Yeah, yeah. And that justice is one of the, one of the things that for me has always been a challenge because just inherently I have this, this fire that burns toward injustice. And that's part of, part of it is being a rebel and, and like, well, this rule is arbitrary and it's unjust. So therefore I'm going to fight against it. Like, it took me a long time to figure that out, but to kind of realize is like, no, like, this is why. So that's one of the aspects that I've always struggled with. Well, not always, but especially as an adult with religion, especially with Christianity is like, there's a lot that, you know in this theological aspects that seems very unjust. And, and I guess that's the question that I, I continually am asking people and it seems like, and this is a weird thing that I, I misunderstood Catholicism I guess because growing up evangelical, there's a lot of hellfire and brimstone. Right. It's like heaven or hell is very much this black or white thing. And it seems like, at least with the. The Catholics that I. That I have been around in Latin America, that's. There's not a rejection of hell as an as existing, but it's a very different perspective of it than what I grew up with, Christianity. But it still is like, well, okay, these are the things that I struggle with. Have you read the Lucifer Principle. [00:53:23] Dean Simone: Refresh. [00:53:24] Josh Galt: It came out in, like, the 1990s, around the time of the Fourth Turning book, actually. I forget the author's name. I. He wrote another one called the God Particle or something. I think I just started reading. [00:53:35] Dean Simone: I did read that, and I'm sure I'm. You and I seem like kindred spirits to a point where I've read so many things. [00:53:43] Josh Galt: Yeah. [00:53:44] Dean Simone: Gotten what. What I've read. But it's. [00:53:47] Josh Galt: So the Lucifer Principle in general. It talks about how the divisions that we have on Earth are simply because of that we. That we move in groups. And it's this evolutionary thing that's like, you have white blood cells and red blood cel have bad bacteria and good bacteria and you have schools of fish and. And other schools of fish. And sort of all of nature has this ebb and flow. And so looking at politics and looking at religion and looking at these divisions between men and women, black and white, gay and straight, whatever it is, these are things that just naturally ebb and flow in the way that nature has evolved. This is. This is the theory. So I like to read things that I don't necessarily agree with because it gives you a different perspective. But, but so in reading that and then reading stuff like Walter Russell and like, we are all connected to universal consciousness and stuff. It's like some of this stuff overlaps, which in a. In a weird way that I still struggle to wrestle with, was like, well, so if we are essentially like, our purpose is to help consciousness evolve itself to. To help God continually create. And like, some of those things, maybe they're focusing on the negative aspect of the division between different groups or different, different, you know, aspects of nature. But it kind of also makes some sense because the evolutionary process, then it's not so much about what's good and what's evil. It's just about constant creativity. There's a. There's a great quote in. I. I think it's Walter Russell in Universal One, whereas he says God is. Or nature, the Universe is not competitive. It is creative. [00:55:26] Dean Simone: I love that quote, man. [00:55:29] Josh Galt: Yeah. [00:55:30] Dean Simone: That is a great quote. You said it right there. If we're. If we're focusing in on the division, if we're focusing on the fence, we're missing the property. And I think that's what has been going on for a long time. But I love that quote. That's a great quote. And I think that I feel that there is a shift where I think there's a lot of people who have had enough of focusing on. On the division. [00:55:58] Josh Galt: Yeah. [00:55:59] Dean Simone: And I'm like, you. You know, I grew up, you know, punk rock, rebellious guy. Always was rebellious guy. I totally understand that. Angry guy, especially as a younger guy, all those things. So I completely understand it. But I can tell you right now, with people like you and I, I'm older than you are. But you'll see, every year that goes by, every year, those divisions and those fences seem more and more pointless. [00:56:33] Josh Galt: Yeah. [00:56:33] Dean Simone: And it gets to a. To a. A juncture where you're just like, I don't even care. It doesn't even matter to me, you know, And I'll have these conversations. It's so funny, especially the way I look at. A lot of times I play conservative characters, and I'll have people start a conversation with me and go to extremely conservative places, and then when they find out that I'm not super conservative, they'll be like, you know, sort of shocked. And then the flip side of it is I've always been on the liberal side of things. So when I talk to some of my friends and I'll say something that's, you know, they'll think, wow, that's not liberal. That's not part of our. Our liberal handbook. And you can't feel that. [00:57:19] Josh Galt: Right. [00:57:20] Dean Simone: People want those divisions, Josh. They feel. They feel safe with them. But I think that. I think they're fading, man. I feel like they're fading. I. I feel like more people are going, there's more to this than that. That's non. Dualism. That's. That's the yin and the end. That's the whole bit. [00:57:40] Josh Galt: I hope so, because it's something that it seems like we as. As humans just struggle. And it's something. It's funny. It reminded me of the. The division you're. They're talking about politically. I. I traveled for a really long time. I mean, since I was a kid, but especially as an adult, I've. I've been traveling. And so people are always asking me, like, where are you from? It's first question. It's kind of like the, you know, what do you do in the US Is the question when you meet someone, it's where are you from? And I hadn't lived, you know, in the US for 20 years, and so I just started saying, like, I'm a citizen of planet Earth. Earth. In part because I didn't want. I didn't want to be pigeonholed, Right. I didn't want them to. And yet that's what they want. And people. I found. I. I even had, like, people that I was dating get really angry with me for not answering the question with other people because it, like, made them feel embarrassed or whatever. [00:58:33] Dean Simone: Because people can't answer the question. [00:58:36] Josh Galt: People can't handle it. Like, I'm. I'm like, I'm. Seriously, I'm a citizen of planet Earth. Earth. No, but where are you from? Well, I. I've lived in, like, 10 different countries on four different continents. Like, I'm. I'm not really from. I'm from Earth. I feel a kindred with my world. No, but where were you born? Where is your passport? Like, why does that matter, bro? Like, I'm trying to tell you something good, and you're, like, trying to pigeonhole me and put me in a box, right? [00:59:01] Dean Simone: Because it's scary. Because you say that you're from planet Earth. They can't. They can't assess you. We, you know. You know, Josh, you stop and think about it. This goes into judgment again. Judgment isn't. You know, judgment isn't just going, you're a bad person. You're a good person. You're following this rule. You're not. You're in. The other aspect of judgment is assessment. Why do we always feel the need to assess somebody? Like, we're figuring them out. Like, we're working them out like a. Like a. Like a mathematical equation, you know, because. [00:59:36] Josh Galt: Supposedly it saves mental bandwidth when we're, you know, making other decisions or whatever. There's a whole psychological aspect, and that's why that. [00:59:44] Dean Simone: That's why that was so difficult for. For people, because they wanted. They want to assess you. They want to figure you out. They want to. They want to solve the Josh equation and go, oh, this is. When you do this and that, and that's what Josh. Josh equals that. Now I know. Now I'm good, you know, And I think you. You're basically asking people to not judge, and, yeah, that's a hard thing for us to like. I mean, think about this. Think about what. Think about what television show gained Just the largest amount of popularity in from 2000 and it's still going right now. American Idol. American Idol, still a gajillion. People watch it. The whole thing is based on real time judgment. You're good, you're bad, you did great, you're not going to make it. And look, you have all these other reality based shows. They're kicked off the island, you're on the island, you're. It's all this judgment in real time now. You know, I'm a, I played sports. My viewpoint of sports have changed a lot. Even though I even coached high school football for, for a long time, for 15 years. If you look at it all, it's all based on that. It's all based on us. And then this and that. Judge that. Assess it, assess it, assess it. You have to assess situations. And what you did, what you did was you did not allow them to assess you. They wanted to get a beat on you. They wanted to say, ah, this is Josh and he's, you know, he's from B.C. and this is, this is how he is. And I bet you he likes this thing. And this is, you know, without actually. [01:01:30] Josh Galt: Getting to know me. Right. And then that's, I guess they want. [01:01:34] Dean Simone: To compartmentalize you exactly like that. [01:01:38] Josh Galt: And it's not that I'm not guilty of doing that, but I didn't want people to be putting me in a box. Right. Whatever the country was or, or whatever's going on in the US at the time. Like. And I would sometimes say that I, I wouldn't lie because I, I want to choose my words carefully, but I grew up in Canada, so I was born in the US but I grew up first decade of my life in B.C. and my parents had a school and mission station on the reservation like way up in northern bc. [01:02:03] Dean Simone: Wow. [01:02:03] Josh Galt: So I would often tell people, life, huh, man? Huh? [01:02:06] Dean Simone: Had an interesting life. [01:02:08] Josh Galt: Yes. Yes. No electricity, no running water. Like we use kerosene lamps like moose and grizzly bears and the lake would freeze over in the winter. It was, it was crazy. Yeah. [01:02:19] Dean Simone: You grew up off the grid? [01:02:21] Josh Galt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. First, almost, almost decade of my life. Then we moved back to the US because my dad was very much, much into sports and so he wanted my brother and I to, you know, grow up American in the 90s, like, and I, I appreciate all of it. Like going to, to Africa as a kid, living with no electricity and running water as a kid, being indoctrinated in the peak of American like competitiveness in sports. And my high school Years played football, basketball, baseball. Football and basketball were the ones that I really loved. Walked on in college, played football and then, wow, played some basketball overseas and. But I focused then in my. Like, once I got out of college, I focused on running rivers as I traveled the world, right, as an extreme athlete, like running rivers. So. [01:03:09] Dean Simone: Well, I was. I was small but slow, so that didn't really. Well, love sports. So I did get a good coach's mind because I, I had to, you know, do whatever I could in terms of the sport. And, you know, I mean, I, I weigh 160 pounds right now, and that's basically the same thing I weighed in high school. So I was, you know, it wasn't going to happen, but I did, I did love it. And I, I do love sports in its own way. What do you feel in terms of sports now, now that you've come to a lot of these spiritual awakenings? What would you watch? Say, football now or you watch. You watch sports? What's your take on that? [01:03:53] Josh Galt: So I. You mentioned that, and I wanted to come back to it because it tied to something that we were talking about earlier. I. Over the years, as I've gotten older, I've gotten less and less interested in watching. I've always preferred to play anything than watch anything. So I'd rather play a sport that I don't really care about than watch my favorite sport. That was. I grew up without TV as well, so it was kind of like I like to. When I was younger, I would watch like the playoffs or super bowl or whatever. But watching hasn't. Hasn't really excited me. And over the last, say, 10, 15 years, I just. I don't find a lot of interest in watching. But I still love sports. I still would go and play sports. I still think that sports are really valuable for kids. It's a. It teaches you teamwork, it teaches you discipline, it teaches you adherence to fundamentals. It teaches you, you know, the value of doing things in the dark when no one's watching so that you can then perform when people are all of those things. But specifically, to answer your question, and this, to tie it back with a couple other things, I was very, very competitive when I was younger, and it's taken me until recent years. I still feel like I'm really competitive and ambitious. But that quote, that, that quote about the universe is not competitive. It is creative because I'm also a very creative person, and creativity is what fuels me. Like, it's. I've always. It's sort of that paradox of Growing up by nature, very creative, but by nurture from my. My brother and my dad, like, very competitive and. And logical and all of those things. So I've seen this duality in myself, and I struggle with this concept. Like, is nature creative and not competitive? And when you look at it, like, zoomed out, if we get into the details and say, well, the lion's gonna eat the gazelle, it's kind of competitive, right? Survival of the fittest. It's. It's horrible. Like, nature is metal. Like, you've probably seen the social media account, right? This nature is pretty metal. But if you zoom out and you look at it on the macro and then you get to, like, the philosophical aspect of, I am connected to this universal divinity, this God consciousness, and my specific purpose as a spiritual being having this human journey is to help create. So I'll throw it back to you on the. On the creative question, because what do you think about God constantly evolving and creating? Because the thing about, like, eternity that has, you know, when you're a kid in the Christian church, it's kind of scary to think about sitting on a cloud, playing a harp for all of eternity. That's a really long time. [01:06:34] Dean Simone: That sounds really boring. [01:06:36] Josh Galt: Exactly, exactly. So what about you? [01:06:40] Dean Simone: I'm gonna pass on that one. [01:06:42] Josh Galt: What about if God is constantly creating and what does that mean for our existence now and spiritually if it's constantly creating? [01:06:51] Dean Simone: Yeah, that's great. I love that. Take the. I think that God is constantly creating. God is creation. He is creating. That's the. The constant fountain of creation, fountain of love, fountain of. Of that. And I'm. I'm like you. I. I'm a writer. I'm also a musician. And I. And I, you know, I perform a lot as a musician, too. And. And I feel that it's funny that you said that, because. Where did I hear this? I can't remember where. It was escaping me. I'm one of those people that, like, I literally will, like, be reading three books, listening to four audiobooks. So it starts to, like, mash in together, and I forget my sources. [01:07:37] Josh Galt: But that's the beauty of it, right? [01:07:38] Dean Simone: It is, man. It is the beauty of it. Because it's sort of like. Then you. You sort of delineate what it is that's actually speaking to you. Like, I'll. This is. This is what's coming at me. But I just heard this, and I just was saying this to my son, one of my sons, and I think, what is the one thing that you want to do and it's such a strange question. If I said to you, Josh, what is the one thing you want to do? [01:08:10] Josh Galt: Yeah, it's almost impossible to answer because it's like, well, it depends on the context. [01:08:14] Dean Simone: Depends on the day it does. It took me. It took me about two weeks of meditating, praying, thinking about it, just going, man, that's really a. You know, wow, what a question. You know, it's just a. It's just such an incredibly. Oh, I'll tell you where I heard it. It was the autobiography of a yogi. You know, the. The very famous. The. The name is escaping me, but it's. [01:08:45] Josh Galt: Been, dude, I've been to or something. [01:08:48] Dean Simone: Yeah, he's the most famous yogi of the. Of the 20th century. Huge. And he talked about a teacher saying to him, what is the one thing you want to do? So I thought to my. So I thought and thought. Never. Just couldn't come up with it. One day I'm laying in bed and I'm getting. I get up early and it just hits me and I'm like, I want to succeed through creating. That's what I want to do. That's always what I want to do. I want to. There is still a competitive side in me. I do like to succeed. I do have ambition. I do want to do something with my day that I feel like I'm doing these things and yay. But if I can't do it through creating, I've gotten. I've got no. Absolutely no desire to do it. I have to be involved in the creating process. So to your point, I think that creating is where it's at. I think that's the closest that we can get to God to love and create. That's the closest we can be to God. That's the closest we can be to the universe. That's the closest we can be to whatever it is that you want to call that God thing that involves creating. And I, And I. And I do believe that, that that's where it's at. [01:10:14] Josh Galt: I love that you use the word be, because the way that I have had to formulate that for myself is not so much like, what is the one thing I want to do? Because, like, in. In business or in. In, you know, any type of motivational setting, they're going to be like, if you didn't have. If you had all the money in the world, basically you're Elon Musk, except you don't have his responsibilities, what would you spend your day doing? And that's it. [01:10:39] Dean Simone: That's where it's at. [01:10:40] Josh Galt: That's where you can find the do. But then it's like design your perfect day sort of thing. But that doesn't answer. At least for me, that never answered the real question, which is, what am I supposed to be? [01:10:53] Dean Simone: Well, that's another one, because I believe. [01:10:55] Josh Galt: That it starts there. Your B determines your due, and then your due determines what you have, and then that determines what you can give. So for me, I have that on my website. I've had it for probably 15 years. That's. I don't always live it, but I've been searching to live it. It is be, do, have, give. Like, that's the framework for me that works. [01:11:17] Dean Simone: I absolutely love that. I am. I just read this book, Inner Excellence, and he has a great breakdown, almost exactly, of what you. Exactly what you just said. And basically, it's like these four keys, which is be present, be grateful. Only. Only concern yourself with the. The things that you can control in terms of thought process. If you can't. If you can't control it, then why. Why worry about it? You know, just be. Be in that spot where you're just every day getting up and doing those things that you can do. If you're getting up and you're going, I got to do this thing because I got to make this money, or I got to do this thing because I need to have this success. Right? I can tell you right now, it never works. It never works. Eventually, it's gonna bite you on the ass. It's not going to work. [01:12:20] Josh Galt: It'll just be completely unfulfilling, Totally unfulfilling. [01:12:23] Dean Simone: And I think it's. You and I have some similar backgrounds and some different things in our backgrounds, but one thing growing up playing sports, very different from what we were thought, what we told. What do we always say? We were looking at the scoreboard, looking at what the situation is, who's up, who's down, and this guy. This guy's beating. Beating me. Okay? I mean, I, you know, I've scored 20, he scored 24. You know, I got. I got eight rebounds. He's got 12 rebounds. You know, hey, 20. 20 points and eight rebounds. That's pretty good game. But, man, the guy, he did better. That's hard. You know, we really. That's a lot to overcome, especially, you know, from your age group to my age group and being male and being in that. In that world, very difficult thing, you know, that we just can't look at it and go, 20 points and eight rebounds. That's pretty nice day. Yeah. [01:13:20] Josh Galt: Not. Can't be satisfied with it because it's always a comparison thing and then it goes back to that competitive thing. Right. And then suddenly you have division and it just all becomes this. This cycle that's so difficult to break out of. And yet it's. I think it's. It's so important. Important to seek harmony and seek unity rather than just to constantly be filling ourselves with the division and why those guys are wrong and I'm right or why these guys are bad and these guys are good or whatever. And it's like. [01:13:51] Dean Simone: Yeah. And, you know, just think about it. That's so crazy too, is in. In the creative world, there's so much division or so much competition going on. [01:14:01] Josh Galt: Yeah. [01:14:03] Dean Simone: About it, man. It's like, I remember, you know, I mean, are you a musician as well, man? [01:14:10] Josh Galt: Sadly, yes. I. I grew up. No, no. I mean, I've. I've left it behind. I want to get back to it. I really miss it and it's a core part of who I am and I've. I've neglected that and I. I regret that. So. Yeah. [01:14:22] Dean Simone: You played gigs. You've played out and played gigs and stuff? [01:14:24] Josh Galt: Yes, when I was younger, yeah. [01:14:26] Dean Simone: Yeah. Okay. So you know how we are. A lot of. A lot of musicians, people don't realize this. A lot of musicians are ex athletes or it's a very competitive mindset where you're like, you know, we're gonna blow them off the stage. We're gonna. Oh, man, we crushed. You know, it's like, it's that. You know what I mean? And look how we do this with creative process. Look what we do with the Academy Awards. You know, it's like it's a competition that was, what movie was better, what actor was better? Or how do you even determine that? [01:15:02] Josh Galt: It's so subjective. [01:15:04] Dean Simone: I know. But we really feel the need to do that, man. And that's a shame for your. I love that quote that you were saying about creativity. It's like it really kills it, you know, and it's got. It's got nothing to do with it whatsoever. I heard this really great quote. Robert De Niro was talking in this interview, and they asked him what advice you would give any young actor. And he said, every time you go and audition for something, audition for it. Absolutely convinced you are not going to get the role. So it does not matter what you do other than just do whatever you're going to want to do because you're not going to get it anyway. So don't even think about trying to get it. Just think about doing your thing and what it is that you want to do and let that other thing enter into your mind. I think that is such an important deal. And it's so hard to do. It's so hard to do that because. [01:16:01] Josh Galt: It requires you to really first of all know yourself, I guess. And so what would I really love to bring to this role if I didn't have to worry about it and then to be present enough to truly tap into that and just express it naturally like you would know much more than I would have of how challenging that is to it is. [01:16:21] Dean Simone: So I have a question. When you played, when you play baseball, what position did you play? [01:16:25] Josh Galt: I was a pitcher. [01:16:27] Dean Simone: Okay. My, my, my middle son is a pitcher. I knew you were a pitcher. I just, I just knew you were a pitcher. I could, I could pitch, play quarterback, point guard. [01:16:38] Josh Galt: Yeah. [01:16:38] Dean Simone: So, so then I'm. I'm preaching to the choir here. So you could write a book on this. Is there anything more creative than being a point guard, a pitcher and a quarterback? Those are the most creative positions, right? [01:16:53] Josh Galt: Yeah, I know, I've never thought about it that way, but that's actually, that's really true. [01:16:58] Dean Simone: Yeah, it's incredibly creative. I mean a spel. Like I don't think there's. Even with. There's so much to being a quarterback. There's so many components, there's so many things. And it's same thing in terms of being a point guard, very similar. But being a pitcher, I don't think, I don't know if there's anything else like that in sports. It's so incredible because of the pacing, because you just, you're right there, you know, you're up on that mound and it's, it is competition, but maybe it's got, it's got the self competition of golf where you really have to be locked in and zone and then decide what pitch am I going to throw to this batter is he got the best of me. If I got the best him, how am I going to twist this? What am I going to do with this? To me, that's where creativity and competition does come into play. Maybe more so than it does in, in the arts. I always thought that pitchers were the most creative. I think they're always usually the most creative people too, as athletes on the baseball. [01:18:05] Josh Galt: And that makes sense because of what. When you have sort of the whole thing in your hands and unlike maybe basketball where it's, it's more fluid, it's More reactionary and, and, you know, seeing steps ahead. But it still is kind of reactionary in, in baseball. The pitcher is there and it's like you, you know the count, you know the battery, know the strengths and weaknesses if they're righty, lefty, whatever, if you've got people on base and it's, it's like all of that is in your hands and you can sort of be very present in Zen and analytical at the same time. And it's like, yeah, that is, is, that is a very creative process. [01:18:43] Dean Simone: It is, it is a creative process. And I think that, I think that there is not many, I mean, sports, you can get creative and there are things. But I do think that within the competition of, of, of, of sports, that is the creative position. The flip side of it is in art. I don't know, Josh. I don't know if it ever really does you. Well, I know I, I, I heard about, about the, the, the way that the Beatles and the Stones or the Beach Boys and the Beatles would, you know, sort of challenge each other and it would be going. And I suppose that that can happen. I, and I, I don't doubt that, but I just don't know if it's conducive to the creative process at all to do that. And to your original point, man, if, if you know, God is the creator and it is about that. Well, that's, that to me is what we have to do as artists is, is, is continue to create, judge less, create more, including self judgment. [01:19:45] Josh Galt: That's really good. Do you think that that's at the, at the core? Where does that come from? Is that at the core of why there is so much division? Is it starts with self judgment and then why, where does that come from in the first place? To where we do have so much self judgment that then causes us to project onto others? [01:20:05] Dean Simone: I think where self judgment comes from is, is generally, I think it comes from our upbringing. I don't know. I can't speak to yours. I can speak to mine. I mean, it was always about assessing yourself and like, and how you're doing and how did you do and how was this and you know, this up to the level that you wanted it to be at. And then, you know, but the reality of it is if you're, if you're watching yourself and you're judging yourself, it's almost impossible to do. You just, you, you just, you can't do it. That's why you look at guys like Tom Brady. You just get the sense, obviously the Competitiveness is there, and those things are there. But when you watch him or you watch somebody like Michael Jordan. Jordan. There's a flow. There's a flow to what they do when Tiger woods was in his group. [01:20:56] Josh Galt: Yes. [01:20:57] Dean Simone: Flow. That is not really like self judgment. Self judgment. They're just there. [01:21:02] Josh Galt: Not at all. [01:21:02] Dean Simone: Go back to our original thing. When you're talking about Taoism, that's what daoism is about. It's about knowing that you have an athletic background now. It's about that zone. It's about that flow. How would you define that? That's religion in its own way. Not religion, that spirituality. That's like you felt that you've been up on the mound and you've pitched scoreless innings after scoreless innings. Where does that come from? Josh, can you say, oh, it's this. [01:21:36] Josh Galt: Where I really discovered it was in Whitewater and extreme sports and being on the edge of life and death. When. When you're running a Class 5 rapid, it's like, well, I found the most peace. And that's when I discovered flow state. And Steven Kotler's book Rise of Superman came out in, like, 2012. Like, that is. I found. I mean, yeah, getting in the zone and stuff when you're playing sports is. Is one thing, but it wasn't until I was in my 20s and I started to really go more and more and more extreme that I realized, oh, this is what flow state is like. I like this. It's not so much about the adrenaline, it's about the peace. Like, when you get in a state of flow, everything slows down. Your decision making is much, much faster. You can see literally every option in that millisecond, and you just. Your body responds. It knows what to do. And you can train for that. You can push yourself in training to the point where you can get better and better and better and be able to. Then when you go out and actually are doing it in a place where it's dangerous, where you have to tap into flow, you can connect with that. And that's. That really is something that I. I think does connect to spirituality. [01:22:46] Dean Simone: It does. And it has a lot to do with being present. [01:22:49] Josh Galt: Exactly, Exactly. [01:22:51] Dean Simone: You are not present. You. You cannot. It. You can't. You can't get in that flow state if you're not present for it's. They are diametrically opposed. It cannot happen. I know this is a lot of. And you think about it. Jesus said it, Buddha said it. It's all through Hindu teachings. You have got to be Present, present, present, present, present, present. It's, it's probably other than love and forgiveness and non judgment, maybe that may come up more than anything in all of the religions. And you know, it's such a hard thing to be present. It's so very difficult. And back to what we were just saying a couple minutes ago, that's the one thing that self judgment does not allow you to be, is present. You can never be present when you're in self judgment and you see, you know, Christ talking about it. And I, I'm working very hard at that and that's something that I feel in the last couple years is something that I've gotten stronger at is being present and really in that moment and just taking it. And it's, you know, it's mind blowing when you're there. It's like, yeah, you see things that you're like, oh my gosh, I completely missed that. Or wow, you know, it's, it. I think it's one of the, the great, great tenets of, of any religion. [01:24:13] Josh Galt: Is it also connects to the idea of they're not being time and being connected to divine consciousness. Because when, when we're living in the past, then we are. What is it we live in the past. You're depressed. If you live in the future, you're anxious. Right? You have to be able to, to get in the present and, and to do that, I think it does allow for more focus, for more introspection, for more connection. Like why is there so much push now for breath work and for cold tubs and for meditation and, and yoga and all these things, all of which are awesome. But why is it becoming such a trend? Because we struggle with being present and that forces us to be present, present in, in certain ways. [01:24:56] Dean Simone: Absolutely. Isn't that you live in the past. The. You live in the past, you're depressed, you live in the future, you're anxious. [01:25:02] Josh Galt: Is. [01:25:02] Dean Simone: It's young. It's young, isn't it? [01:25:04] Josh Galt: Just like you. I don't remember where. [01:25:06] Dean Simone: I think, I think that that's young. That's. It's a Youngian philosophy. Yeah. You know, it's, it's, it's very, very difficult. So I'm going to go back to something that you had asked me about Catholicism and why that delivery system. This is one thing that I feel. This is what I, this is what I hated about Catholicism when I was a kid. I was so bored and I just felt like here I am and now I'm kneeling, now I'm sitting. Now I'm standing. Now I'm kneeling. Now I'm saying, now I'm sitting. Now I'm standing. It's like. And I resented it, like yourself, rebellious viewpoint. I just felt like, oh, man. Like, why do I have to do this? Why is this important? And this seems so ridiculous, but I've realized that, you know, I think the most important part of it, Josh, is it forces you to be present. It forces you to stop all that other stuff and be right here and be in that moment. So back to the original point of the delivery system. That's why now I'm not thinking about acting. I'm not thinking about the screenplay I'm writing. I'm not thinking about the gig I'm going to do. I'm not thinking about. About, you know, what's happening in my family with the three kids and the one grandkid and the other grandkid on the way and all the, you know, my. My wife's issues at work. You know, my. My parents are older, all those things, and they're all important and they're all beautiful and they're all great. But when I'm in there, it's. It helps me focus in on what used to bore me, now makes me just pay attention that I'm kneeling and I'm hearing this stuff that I've heard so many times, but I can just concentrate on it like a mantra. And the whole action pulls me into that present moment. So that is another aspect of why I need Catholicism with those other things. Those other things color my viewpoints so that when I go in and I am participating in that Catholic Mass, I find that I can just let go to it. And I don't feel like I have to judge it or go, why am I kneeling? Why am I doing this? That doesn't happen anymore. [01:27:15] Josh Galt: So the sacredness of the ritual is something that really grounds you and brings you to the moment. See, this is. This is really interesting because I spoke to somebody else that was a Catholic that. That touched on that. And for me, in Latin, my. My exposure to the Catholic Church. Like, my aunt was Catholic, but she lived in New York. And so I didn't really know her that much. And growing up. So I didn't have much exposure to Catholic Church in the US at all, other than our choir. Like, our school choir would sing in an Anglican church at Christmas time or something, which was amazing. It was like, the acoustics were incredible. It was a beautiful place. So I actually felt connection there when we would go there. But that was the extent of My going through the doors of, you know, a cathedral in Latin America, I have a lot more experience of being in many, many, many different cathedrals and. And Masses with different people and friends and whatever. And now a lot more experience because of my wife. I think it's different and. And this is. Gosh, now. Now I'm feeling guilty for judging, but it lacks the sacredness that I have seen in certain other massive cathedrals where it's like you walk in and just depress presence. And the. [01:28:31] Dean Simone: This. [01:28:31] Josh Galt: The service. I don't know if you call it the service. The mass is. Is very detailed and it's very serious, and it's very sacred most of the time. And I can say that, like, probably like 80, 90% of the time when I have been in a Catholic Mass in Latin America in the last 18, 20 years. It's not that. It's not that. I mean, you go through the rituals and whatnot, but there's. For me, I haven't felt that, like, this is super sacred and. And it hasn't been that. That atmosphere. And so I don't know if that's a great point. I think that's important. And for me, that makes it like something that I could. I can relate to what you're saying, but without that, it's like you're just going through motion, sitting, standing. There's kids screaming. You're, like, talking about the announcements and, like, it's like, what is this? [01:29:19] Dean Simone: You know, I. When I was filming the series last year in Mexico City, there was a couple of Catholic churches that were close to where I was staying, and I. I would. I'm a runner, so I run in the morning and I would run, especially to this one. It's just super awesome, man. I just, Just, just this gor. This church was, like, literally built in for like, 1500. [01:29:41] Josh Galt: There's some incredible cathedrals in Mexico City. [01:29:44] Dean Simone: Incredible, man. And exactly to what you're saying. And I. I went to a couple of the masses and I don't speak Spanish, but it didn't matter. First of all, I knew where we were in the Mass. I knew what it was that they were saying. The only thing that I couldn't glean was the homily. I mean, I know a few words here and there, but basically I knew the other stuff. I knew what was happening. But you hit the nail right on the head. There was a feeling of being part of something that was completely transcendent. It definitely had a different vibe, and I don't take it as judgy. What you're saying. I, I do. I, I felt it. I know exactly what you're saying. It felt like this is. There's more going on here, you know, than, Than the. What I've experienced in Catholic masses in the States. The other thing that's really an interesting deal is, you know, when Vatican II happened and the Reformations start to come in, something is really. Was amazing. Was. First of all, Mass was in Latin, so most people didn't know what was being said, number one. Number two, the priests did not face us, the priests. So attendance to Mass was so much greater at a time when they were speaking a language that nobody and the priest wasn't facing the people. So to your point, that's inviting people to be part of an experience. We'll be part of this experience. We'll do this thing. As opposed to trying to entertain people like it's a movie or like the. [01:31:30] Josh Galt: The evangelical mega churches. That's what it kind of feels like in a lot of places is like the Catholic. Like, I've been surprised. It's like this is kind of like the churches I grew up in. Like, why are you guys doing this? [01:31:42] Dean Simone: Right? No, it's. It, it, it. It's true. And, and I don't take it as what you're saying is judgy, nor do I feel like I'm judging it. I'm just talking about what speaks to me. [01:31:52] Josh Galt: Yeah. [01:31:52] Dean Simone: So to your original question and the original thought that we were talking about here, why those different delivery systems? Or. Or why Catholic? Why. Why non dualism? Why Taoism? And to a degree, why stoicism? Because those things all speak to me in a certain way, and I feel like I can take all those components, put them in here, know where I'm coming from, and then when I go to Catholic, a Catholic Mass, I feel like I'm able to let it wash over me and be in that moment of letting those things happen. And then I just go out and live and, and try to, to let those things come out. [01:32:34] Josh Galt: That's amazing. One, One more question. I, I could talk to you all day. We'll try, Try to keep things. [01:32:42] Dean Simone: I've done many of these, and I'm. I'm so enjoying this, man. You're a. You're a great guy, and this is a very. [01:32:47] Josh Galt: Oh, thanks. [01:32:48] Dean Simone: I appreciate it, man. [01:32:49] Josh Galt: Really enjoyed it as well. If you could give some advice to someone that's truly seeking of any faith and just say, all right, if you're truly seeking, don't. Don't try. And I'M not going to say come to Catholicism, but do this one thing for the next 30 days, every day, consistently, and you will find a deeper connection with God. What would, what would the thing that you would admonish or suggest be? [01:33:19] Dean Simone: Absolutely without a shadow of a doubt. Replace worry with prayer and replace judgment with love. Right there. That's what has. That is what's changed my life. And there's really nothing more to it than that to me because it's basically letting go and it's basically not judging and loving. And if you do those things, you can't help but be present. It makes you be present. The other things fall into place. So that would be my, my answer to that. And that's what I taught. That's what I say to my kids, and that's what I try to do. Sometimes I fail. But that's self judgment. [01:34:07] Josh Galt: Exactly. Love it. Love it. Replace worry with prayer. Replace judgment with love. [01:34:14] Dean Simone: Yeah. [01:34:15] Josh Galt: Dean, excellent stuff. Thank you so much for coming. [01:34:19] Dean Simone: It was an absolute pleasure. I had a. A great time talking to you and I've. I have some folks that I think would be fantastic guests for you too, that I, I love to love to hear you interview and talk to. Because I think you'd get a lot out of them and they would get a lot out of talking to you, man, so. [01:34:37] Josh Galt: Well, yeah, please send them over. I appreciate it. I. I would love to. To. I saw the one person that you put in the thing, and I'm going to contact him as soon as I publish yours. I'll send him the link. Link and contact him. But yeah, I'm. John just kind of started this, but I'm. It's a passion project and I just, I. I love these conversations because every time there's some little nugget of truth and that's what I'm looking for. And I think that that's what helps us to grow is. [01:35:01] Dean Simone: You're absolutely right. I got to share this with you real quick before we break. But, you know, I love these conversations and I. I completely connect with you right away. Definitely a man after my own heart. And I totally understand that. And so my wife. I talked to my wife this morning. I said, yeah, I'm doing this really interesting podcast this afternoon. And she's, oh, what is it? And I told her and she's like, oh, geez, you're gonna be in heaven now. That's, you know, because she always says, I'll talk about this stuff for hours at a time. I just. I just love it. So I want to thank you. I so much enjoyed being able to be a part of this conversation with you man. I appreciate it. [01:35:42] Josh Galt: No, thank you Dean. I really appreciate it as well. I truly enjoyed it.